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  • bezhawk
    replied
    Of course I get to drive "these cars" I strive to deliver the best possible product, and well sorted out. So is that now a bad thing?

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  • sweetolbob
    replied
    Originally posted by kxet View Post
    Do you get to drive these cars? Sound like problems. Good luck.
    I'm not sure how fine an edge you folks are trying to put on the EFI technology but I think there's a degree of over-criticality. I have the earlier Holley HP EFI setup on my 83 Avanti roller cam 355 SBC engine and it has made the engine an excellent starting, hard runner. It controls timing and fuel and the curves it has built are much different than I would have expected for this engine.

    I've lost battery power a couple of times and it will start and run afterwards and rebuild the curve in a few miles.

    It's a ton of technology for the price and effectiveness. Cut it a break.

    Bob

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  • kxet
    replied
    Do you get to drive these cars? Sound like problems. Good luck.

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  • bezhawk
    replied
    The main basic runing programs are in the main chip. As the car is driven it is self learning by comparing actual reading vs the pre programed maps. Then what the car likes is saved to a SD memory (like your phone SD memory) That is permanent, whether it has battery power or not. But, until it learns with enough driving (about 50 miles of varied driving habits). If (and there are) areas of the basic fuel map that are not optimum for the engine then more areas can be accessed through downloaded programs through a laptop. All for an additional fee of course, unless you take it to someone that has already paid the fees, and is a tuner.

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  • tsenecal
    replied
    Some tool venders use to sell a unit that plugged in to the cigarette lighter with a 9 volt battery. They were used to supply power to clocks and radios, while you were changing batterys, etc.

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  • studegary
    replied
    Originally posted by Kdancy View Post
    What if the car battery goes dead? More reason for a seperate lithuim battery dedicated to the EFI unit.
    Or even more likely - when you want to replace the battery or you want to disconnect the battery in order to work on some other component.

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  • Kdancy
    replied
    What if the car battery goes dead? More reason for a seperate lithuim battery dedicated to the EFI unit.

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  • BSick1
    replied
    I'm with Jeff on this one. It is not rocket surgery these days to engineer a properly functioning ecu... Why do so many aftermarket companies get it so wrong or are we using it out of intended application? Are these components designed for the hi tech builder who keeps his laptop at his side as he makes passes?

    But yes. A lithuim battery on board would be novel and before I bought one of these... I'd be asking the company "what in the world are you thinking .." and what product spec engineer is getting fired...
    Basic engineering. ..

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  • Jeff_H
    replied
    It seems crazy to me that at this late date in vehicle electronics development that this unit does not have a EEPROM or section of flash (types of nonvolatile memory) dedicated to storing the custom settings that will always be used for something that is a "universal fit". At one time (80s-90s) car ECU's would have their program and operating settings "burned" into masked or one-time-programmable ROMs (read only memory). Those "tuner" chips they would sell went in a socket to replace the factory one. By the end of the 90s, Flash memory became affordable and large enough that got used for those types of applications since it could be easily updated and reprogrammed by hooking up a tool to the vehicle communication bus.

    I can't think of any ECU we've done at my work in the last many years that would require un-switched battery power to retain custom settings or need to be reprogrammed again if that power is lost. Especially something that is "mission critical" like an engine control where the vehicle won't run.

    All the factory ECU's I am somewhat knowledgeable of will have both a unswitched power from the battery and a switched power that comes from the key. There is typically a relay that the controller turns one once it wakes up from the key input and that relay applies the power to things like the fuel pump or other higher current loads. Nowadays, however, the trend is away from relays and some high current transistor switches are used. But, the input power to those is still separated from the key power and will be on a separate fuse from it.

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  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    OK, Gord.
    You go tell all these separate companies that their designs are not legit.
    I'll sit down and be quiet now....



    Originally posted by gordr View Post
    Jeff, that's not legit. That's my whole point. You do not want a 25 amp fuse on any circuit that stays energized when switches are off, because a 25 amp fuse can pass enough current to burn your car to the ground, or run your battery flat overnight.EFI controller running fuel pump, fans, ignition, etc.? Fine, but have a dedicated switched line to provide the feed for that. I see no reason, other than "we've always done it this way" why automotive CPU's could not have built-in battery backup the same as all laptop and desktop computers have had for the last 30+ years.This is particularly important for an aftermarket system, that might get installed incorrectly, or have associated wiring run in some way that exposes it to chafing, etc.If I had to use system like this, I would provide some sort of work-around. Maybe feed the line through a 2-amp fuse with the ignition off, and have a relay wired to switch in a 25-amp fuse with the ignition key on. Or even a hidden manual switch, which would also act as a theft deterrent.

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  • gordr
    replied
    Jeff, that's not legit. That's my whole point. You do not want a 25 amp fuse on any circuit that stays energized when switches are off, because a 25 amp fuse can pass enough current to burn your car to the ground, or run your battery flat overnight.EFI controller running fuel pump, fans, ignition, etc.? Fine, but have a dedicated switched line to provide the feed for that. I see no reason, other than "we've always done it this way" why automotive CPU's could not have built-in battery backup the same as all laptop and desktop computers have had for the last 30+ years.This is particularly important for an aftermarket system, that might get installed incorrectly, or have associated wiring run in some way that exposes it to chafing, etc.If I had to use system like this, I would provide some sort of work-around. Maybe feed the line through a 2-amp fuse with the ignition off, and have a relay wired to switch in a 25-amp fuse with the ignition key on. Or even a hidden manual switch, which would also act as a theft deterrent.

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  • DEEPNHOCK
    replied
    Originally posted by gordr View Post
    A 25-amp fuse? Sheesh! For a memory keep-alive source? If the system uses even one-tenth of that to keep the memory alive, then there is something very, very wrong. And if they are using that source to drive something else when the unit is in operation, then they designed it wrong. My computer's BIOS is kept alive by a 3-volt lithium cell about the size of a quarter, and those last for years and years.I would try a 2.5 amp fuse in that position, and see what happens.
    It's legit, Gord.
    These newer EFI systems also drive the electric fuel pump(s), the ignition system, and the electric fan(s).
    Sure, they are using relays, but when you start adding up items, you need the capacity in your main feed line and your fuse.

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  • gordr
    replied
    Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK View Post
    Both the Sniper and the FiTech have in their instructions and wiring diagram about the 'always hot' lead that keeps the computer memory alive. (quote) Main power. Connect this wire directly to the positive (+) terminal of the battery. This circuitneeds to be live even when the switch is off so that the self learning files are maintained. This isfused with a 25 amp fuse.
    A 25-amp fuse? Sheesh! For a memory keep-alive source? If the system uses even one-tenth of that to keep the memory alive, then there is something very, very wrong. And if they are using that source to drive something else when the unit is in operation, then they designed it wrong. My computer's BIOS is kept alive by a 3-volt lithium cell about the size of a quarter, and those last for years and years.I would try a 2.5 amp fuse in that position, and see what happens.

    Leave a comment:


  • bezhawk
    replied
    I thought about putting in a small lithium Ion battery for the memory. I still may.
    I am familiar with diode usage. I made a 4-way flasher circuit for it when I made the wiring harness. (using stock column and turn signal switch)
    The only thing it isn't "learning" is the no load deceleration fuel curve. If it is held to a 1200-1600 high idle, and released it goes lean and stalls. Accessible with a laptop.
    No numbers yet, dyno session is for the 10th.

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  • Buzzard
    replied
    Thanks Jeff,
    I guess my Arizona pals are a little handicapped (or too much beer) when it comes to reading instructions. Amazing what one can learn from the directions. I would surmise that by using EFI as per Brad one can eliminate the carburetor issues related to high boost.
    Bill

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