Ignition: 2R6-12 Starter motor or Solenoid

[packard352]

Needing some help with the above.

Last Thursday, I backed out my pickup to a bit of work. Later that evening, I had to push the truck back into the garage; it wouldn't turnover.

Today, I took the new 6-volt battery back to the shop and was checked to be holding a charge.

After watching YouTube for hints, etc. I returned to the garage for 30 minutes. When trying to start the truck, there is a single short clicking sound when pressing on the clutch peddle, so I'm wondering now is it the starter solenoid or the starter motor that's quit. The negative battery lead that goes to the generator I notice can get warm after 5 or 6 continuous attemps to start the truck.

Any grateful suggestions gladly received.

Thanks
Richard

[Skip Lackie]

Richard-
Lots of things could have been done to your truck in 60+ years, so can you confirm that it's still positive ground? Second, your truck did not originally come with a solenoid. The step-on starter switch under the clutch pedal just completes the circuit between the hot side (negative) of the battery and the starter. Those switches can get dirty and/or corroded and not pass enough electrons to start the engine.

You should be able to look to see if your truck has been retrofitted with a solenoid. If not, just attach a jumper cable (hopefully a HD one -- most modern ones are made for 12v and don't handle double the extra amps very well) to the negative battery post and touch the other end to the big post on the starter (with the truck in neutral!). You might want to wrap all but the end of the metal end of the cable in something non-conducting, cause if you touch something else under the hood, you'll get big sparks.

[altair]

I think you mean starter when you say generator. I would remove the starter clean it and bench test it. If the cable gets warm may indicate the cable is too small, a "0" size cable is best. There are several solenoids (if you have a solenoid) on the market and they are wired differntly than the older ones and some are continuous operation and some are intermitenant operation, some are 6 volt or 12 volt some go to ground and some don't and some open and close ground to operate. But I don't think you have a solenoid just a starter switch.

[packard352]

Thanks for responses. I've promised to take my wife somewhere that she'll enjoy for the day on Monday, we have a national holiday in the UK, but if we get back in time I'll roll the truck out and take a few pics to share. Skip, yes the truck remains 6 volts with new, 1 month old 6 volt battery. When I depress the cluthe peddle all the way to the floor, I get a single click... no more. And yes, upon reflection, the isn't fitted with a solenoid in the same way my 56 Golden Hawk was. I think I stand corrected, many thanks

[packard352]

Yesterday, the weather wasn't too bad and was able to push the truck outside later in the afternoon. With it jacked up, I placed some ramps under the front wheels and then was able to scramble about underneath the pickup. Taking shots underneath the truck isn't the easiest, bit first I had to remove a gravel shield... and here are some of the pics I was able to get with my cell phone; not great, but not too bad.

I wasn't overly impressed with the lead that goes from the negative battery terminal to the dynamo and as a temporary measure, wound some new electrical tape over the existing tape.

Skip, I haven't had a chance of using some jumper cables, but maybe this weekend I'll have an opportunity of trying to ascertain if there is an issue with the starter motor.

As you'll see, I've tried as best I can to take a series of photos on the underside of the driver's side, though with limited access, there's a limit to what can be shot.

In case you're wondering about the last shot, I spent a fair chunk of Sunday, measuring up, re-measuring and then get the drill out to fit-up some front indicators. I've replaced the bulbs with 6-volt bulbs. The wiring has yet to start in earnest. The truck is positive-earthed. I have also fitted rear indicator lights, different to the fronts as there are less driver's in the UK that would understand hand signals and frankly after a number of year's educating road users with just red stop/tail light/indicators, I wanted to opt for an easier driving life!

Feel free to comment if you see anything glaringly obvious that jumps out at you.

Before I put the truck back on the ground, I did try to start it, but nothing. The battery seems to be in good shape, the main lights come on strong, but there's nothing after turning the ignition key and depressing the clutch peddle; I even tried using just my toe on the starter button... but, nada.

[TWChamp]

You may know this, but the switch pictured is the headlamp dimmer switch, not the starter switch.

[doofus]

Sure sounds like a bad connection. batt has been out several times and i'm sure you shined up the terminals on re-installation. i would be looking at that switch on the starter. nice pix tho, sharp truck! Luck Doofus

[nvonada]

Nice truck! Don't just start pulling things apart. This is a simple circuit that delivers power to the starter motor. So do you have voltage at the starter motor? If not do you have power at the switch? A cheap multimeter is your friend here. Those two checks will probably give you a better hint. If your truck is like my car you don't have a solenoid switch.

Nathan

[Mrs K Corbin]

Pull the starter and bench test it just for grins..... while you're at it, remove ALL connections and clean them from battery all the way thru the switch to the starter.
Next clean up the starter where it mates to the truck and the engine ground.....

Been there, done that.

[TWChamp]

Any chance the starter drive pinion is jammed in the flywheel ring gear?
If you put the truck in 3rd gear, can you push the truck and make the engine turn over?

[packard352]

That was my first idea and I stuck it in 2nd gear to rock the truck back n forth. I’m resigned to getting under the truck to remove the starter motor, but for the exercise I’ll give it one last shot in 3rd gear. But, if the starter can get stuck once, it can do it again, lol

[jclary]

Just a minor nitpick here but I'm not so sure about having my main ground wire attached to the Generator bracket? (your first pic)

In fact, a more secure location to attach the ground wire would be to a water manifold mounting bolt. Even then, an additional wire from the frame to one of the engine mount bolts provides a double ground. If you have a very heavy jumper cable set, don't have any fuel leaks, you can attach one lead directly to the main starter lug and touch the other end directly to the battery and test the starter that way.

Make sure the vehicle is in neutral, the parking brake is set, and be prepared for some sparks. Don't be timid, make quick immediate contact on the battery and either the starter will engage immediately or not. The idea is to establish a good contact but move quickly and aggressively. Don't keep the contact long enough to heat up the clamp in your hand. It only takes a split second to know if the starter will engage with such a positive jumper lead. Kinda like a bench test before having to remove it for a real bench test.

[packard352]

So, here's the update on my truck.

I got it running again over the weekend. and if I'm honest, I cheated. Having decided to remove the starter from the truck, it took a very long time to remove the lower bolt... and even longer to remove the upper bolt with not great access. My ratchet set could only work at the beginning and after an age of turning a spanner an eighth of turn, I ended up pulling the starter away from the gearbox housing, but with the starter still attached.

I got to thinking that if I put the truck in 4th gear and gave the tailgate a good couple of hefty shoves, I'd try my luck. And, my luck was in, she started right up.

I have conceded (to myself) that if I end up with the same issue, the starter will have to come out. However, the incentive for me was being able to drive the truck in and out of the garage... and, I did dwell on the thought that if I did pull the starter motor off the truck, I'd have it get it back on to the truck at a later date.

So, I know it's not the most elegant of 'fixes,' but it made me smile... plus the additional thought of not spending a whole day on the starter motor when I have sooo many other jobs to get on with! I was able to sand off the 60-year old interior heading lining glue, paint, etc. and prime up the interior. Next task will be fit up some dynamat soundproofing on the interior roof.

Thanks again to all with very helpful suggestions. The advice offered has not been in vain and is banked should I need to go back to the starter motor, which I'll pull should it play up again.

Thanks again, Richard

[packard352]

Hi John,

Your comment about making sure there are no gas leaks is very apposite as there is a leaking gas tank, yet another job to get to! Also a good reason not play around with sparks and gasoline, lol.

But, thanks for your comments - always good to be reminded! Richard

[jackb]

Besides a worn starter gear and/or ring gear..... you might have a mis-matched engine to bellhousing arrangement. If you have a replacement engine, and its 1000's off, you can get popping out of gear and a bound starter drive.... I'd park downhill for future jump starts until you fix things..