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Broken bolt in a nut plate, broken bit inside bolt

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  • #16
    Originally posted by jnormanh View Post
    You might be able to get it out with a left hand drill. Worth a try for a dollar or two.
    Already tried. Wore it out because of the pilot bit I broke out in the bolt.
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

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    • #17
      What you have is just what Bob is showing only his doesn't have a outer hood panel the rivets are holding the plate with the nuts up to the bottom of the hood. I would take a die grinder with a cut off wheel and cut three sides around the hinge of the hood, grind off the pop rivets and you should be able to bend the glass on the left over side back enough to remove the plate. Do your repairs on it after it is out and you can get to it, Then reinstall the plate and use a couple bolts to hold it in place and install new stainless rivets. Now fit everything back in place and re- fiberglass it all back up and finish off then prime and or paint. easiest way to repair if you cant get the drill bit out is just cut off the nut with the die grinder and weld on a new nut.

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      • #18
        Make a template and or measure where the holes are BEFORE you go chopping on it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by swvalcon View Post
          What you have is just what Bob is showing only his doesn't have a outer hood panel the rivets are holding the plate with the nuts up to the bottom of the hood. I would take a die grinder with a cut off wheel and cut three sides around the hinge of the hood, grind off the pop rivets and you should be able to bend the glass on the left over side back enough to remove the plate. Do your repairs on it after it is out and you can get to it, Then reinstall the plate and use a couple bolts to hold it in place and install new stainless rivets. Now fit everything back in place and re- fiberglass it all back up and finish off then prime and or paint. easiest way to repair if you cant get the drill bit out is just cut off the nut with the die grinder and weld on a new nut.
          Exactly what Steve said. It's an original replacement hood without the outer skin. I didn't climb two flights of stairs and walk 400 ft on a newly replaced knee to be "close".

          Bob

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          • #20
            Drill bits are brittle, that's why they break. If you actually did drill all the way through before the drill bit broke, you did say it pierced the other side?? Either way, me being a machinist, I had to deal with these types of situations many, many times from customers. If the bit did break through you can simply get a good pin punch and start slowly breaking the bit to pieces inside the hole. It breaks pretty easy but you also have to use a pick or those dental tools they sell to remove the bits and pieces as the drill bit break apart. With a little luck all the hammering will eventually completely break through the other side. Either way, with time and patience, you can (as I have) bust the bit into pieces and remove the pieces one by one. YES YOU CAN!!

            PS - You can also use this same method on broken taps. The broken tap pieces are more difficult to remove because the tap has threads and they get stuck in the metal as it taps. But you can still break it into pieces because it's brittle. It takes longer to remove than a drill bit but it can be done!!

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            Last edited by Treblig; 04-13-2019, 06:22 PM.

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            • #21
              Just returned home from a wedding and saw that many have responded trying to help with this dilemma. Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned using a portable EDM tap removal machine. I know they are expensive, and not every corner machine shop has one. However, in your area, I used to sell tooling to some pretty busy machine shops and maintenance departments in large manufacturing plants. It has been years since I was in that business and lots of the manufacturing folded or fled overseas to escape the "we're gonna regulate your farts" crowd that was in charge back then. However, if you have some machine shops still surviving in your area, you might ask and someone might just have a broken tap/drill EDM remover tool or know of someone who has.
              John Clary
              Greer, SC

              SDC member since 1975

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              • #22
                Ron, I can about guarantee you that the MIG welder trick described above will get the drill fragment and bolt stub out together without doing violence to the fiberglass, as long as you weld in short bursts, and allow plenty of time for cooling, or quench it between welds. IIRC, I did an Avanti door hinge bolt this way. It works because the differential expansion between the heated bolt and the cold captive nut crushes the rust crystals between the male and female threads, and the heat drives water of crystallization out of the hydrated iron oxide that makes up the rust, also reducing its volume. Those bolts should be 5/16"-18, too, BTW.
                Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                • #23
                  Bob, thanks for hiking up there for the photo. I first saw it on my phone and thought yours was riveted to the bottom outside of the hood. On the big screen, I see that now. I/m a terrible welder, so am a bit hesitant to try that method, but may anyway. The bit I broke did not go all the way through and was a tiny 3/64", and I don't have a pin punch that small, but am going to ACE today and will look for one. I'm still leaning towards drilling a 1/2" hole in the top of the hood and drilling from that side, hoping that the broken pit will push back out and this bit advances.
                  Ron Dame
                  '63 Champ

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                  • #24
                    If you have a MIG then I'd be inclined to try Gord's method first...what do you have to lose? You don't really need great welding skills to do this...you just need short bursts of heat directly on the broken bolt. No glass work, no paint work, no picking, no hammering, no drilling. Cheers, Junior
                    sigpic
                    1954 C5 Hamilton car.

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                    • #25
                      Ron, I don't profess to be an expert welder. This trick was shown to me by a friend who is. It is almost fool-proof. The arc normally won't strike to the rusty metal around the broken bolt, because rust is an insulator, so that makes it pretty hard to accidentally weld the stub to the nut plate. Just be careful to direct the wire at the dead center of the bright metal stub, or the drill itself. And it almost never works first go, but that's a good thing, because every additional heat/cool cycle nibbles away at the rust bond. Also, I need to add to the previous: once you get a nut welded onto your built-up pinnacle, first thing to do is work the wrench to and fro gently. Back-and-forth movement on the threads helps clear the rust out, and grinds it finer. Constant torque in one direction can pile it up, and jam it even worse than it was.

                      Originally posted by Ron Dame View Post
                      Bob, thanks for hiking up there for the photo. I first saw it on my phone and thought yours was riveted to the bottom outside of the hood. On the big screen, I see that now. I/m a terrible welder, so am a bit hesitant to try that method, but may anyway. The bit I broke did not go all the way through and was a tiny 3/64", and I don't have a pin punch that small, but am going to ACE today and will look for one. I'm still leaning towards drilling a 1/2" hole in the top of the hood and drilling from that side, hoping that the broken pit will push back out and this bit advances.
                      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                      • #26
                        I am a sorta sticks parts together with sparks kind of welder, but you are right, what do I have to lose?.

                        Originally posted by gordr View Post
                        Ron, I don't profess to be an expert welder. This trick was shown to me by a friend who is. It is almost fool-proof. The arc normally won't strike to the rusty metal around the broken bolt, because rust is an insulator, so that makes it pretty hard to accidentally weld the stub to the nut plate. Just be careful to direct the wire at the dead center of the bright metal stub, or the drill itself. And it almost never works first go, but that's a good thing, because every additional heat/cool cycle nibbles away at the rust bond. Also, I need to add to the previous: once you get a nut welded onto your built-up pinnacle, first thing to do is work the wrench to and fro gently. Back-and-forth movement on the threads helps clear the rust out, and grinds it finer. Constant torque in one direction can pile it up, and jam it even worse than it was.
                        Ron Dame
                        '63 Champ

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Thanks everyone, the bolt is out.

                          I appreciate everyone's misplaced confidence in my welding skills. Our Vo-Tech schools focus on two year degrees, mostly in health or cooking, and virtually no single course skills like welding. I do the best I can, but it is crap.
                          That said, I sparked four nuts, ruining the hex, the threads, smoked some fiberglass, but never hit the danged stuck bolt, it was too deep into the nuts. A thinner nut was not to be had in my pile, and also would be recessed in the fiberglass too far to grab with a wrench. (see ruined hex as to why a socket would not work)

                          I ended up drilling a 3/8" hole through the top of the hood, and drilling through that way enough to use a punch and collapse the shell of the bolt, then drive it out without ruining the threads.

                          So it is done, I can put the hood on and start breaking in this engine.
                          Ron Dame
                          '63 Champ

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                          • #28
                            Good job Ron. Have been following your saga with interest, but had no useful advice to offer. Thanks for the closure.
                            Skip Lackie

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                            • #29
                              good news the job is done...no damage to the threads even better! At least you tried the welder trick... cheers, junior
                              sigpic
                              1954 C5 Hamilton car.

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