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Which is correct angle to 57GH tailpipes? (and clearances questions)

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  • Exhaust: Which is correct angle to 57GH tailpipes? (and clearances questions)

    Hi guys,
    back with more questions on my 57 Golden Hawk exhaust.
    Truly baffled, as even after four of you went and checked your cars for me last week (THANKS!), none of it makes sense. I have NOS straps and hangers and "special washers", for the very rear mounting of both pipes. Not so concerned about "NOS" except I thought that would give me a really nice baseline to START from and work forward to the engine, twisting pipes and mufflers as needed for clearances.
    BUT, there is NO where that NOS set up can mount, except possibly the gas tank bracket (as one of you said yours was, but was it original Stude mount? Up until '58 per parts catalog, all gas tanks were mounted with 3/8" bolts (as was mine), but all the hanger straps and square steel washers were mounted with 5/16" bolts. So even if the photos of "best I can get" look right, that strap STILL should not be where it is in my photos; but clueless where else it would mount.
    Anyway, bear with me:
    Question #1) what should the tailpipe 'angle' look like just as it exits the car? (I bolted the body panel with the exhaust cutaways for visual reference). One photo shows right side, which is "easy" to position because tank isn't over there and has that nice hanger bracket sticking out... THAT one I have horizontal, or parallel to the floor. Just seemed that made sense, plus kind of naturally took that position with hanger strap HANGING straight down like you'd think it would be designed. But look at the LEFT side; this has a distinct angle of rotation, necesssary to have any chance of clearance of the big 'loop' at the shock. So hopefully it SHOULD be angled UP like this??
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    Question #2: I'll show the NOS correct hanger; and I have it in the gas tank bracket as I have no idea where else to go with it; I'll also show the clearances at shock (how many inches away does the pipe need to be there?), and clearance near spring shackle and gas tank. You can see how the rubber strap is really doing nothing for positioning, as it is not HANGING from it; maybe if I really tighten those washers to frame and rubber in the "best position" it will push it towards the tank a little, otherwise it is only positioned by where I rotate the pipe at the muffler itself (and where the muffler is of course, and my sons and I moved everything to the limits experimenting, to extreme where E-brake cable was resting on the pipe, etc.... (it is just lower than taut cable now in these photos). I'm not going to TIGHTEN UP the clamps until body is on, but really need to get it close while I can get at things (don't have a hoist and have a disability). That darn left clamp really bugs me; original frame, and NOS parts, it should fit like a glove, assuming the Silvertones are bent correctly and I've heard enough good things about them (and enough made) that I'm guessing they are darn close. I'll hang it from the tank and drill out the washers and strap so the 3/8" gas-tank bolt fits if needed, but never change what is original unless you know what you are doing and why. And I've never seen one before (mine was cut off up at the mufflers, and no strap hanger left on the left rear for me to locate by). So, most important is Question #1, but if the angle on left pipe IS correct, then how do these clearances look? Thanks guys!
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    Attached Files
    Last edited by bsrosell; 04-07-2019, 03:14 PM.

  • #2
    Most of the modern pictures show those semi-fishtail extensions point straight back.
    So does this brochure -http://www.studebaker-info.org/Brochures/1957/57ghbr1/57GHBR1D.jpg

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't see how you attached the Tail Pipes to the Mufflers, that ANGLE coming out of the Left muffler SHOULD be able to be changed to correct the angled T/Pipe Tip on the Left which looks wrong.

      Also I would have to see how much inboard Tilt you have going over the Axle Tubes.
      If Silvertone got that Tip angle wrong, it should be correctable with a Muffler Shop Tubing Bender.

      When you install your AC-2840 Exhaust Extensions, they will need to be straight.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #4
        Rich, went out and snapped some more photos. SO hard to see anything except ONE gap at a time, need a 360 deg video.
        A couple checking questions that would help though;
        1) how close can the E-brake cable be to the top of the first pipe? I'd have to rotate the front pipe as far CCW (up almost touching E-brake cable, AND just about touching crossmember by tranny) to have any chance of getting the rear pipe 'flat' instead of twisted down as I showed it.
        2) In regards to THAT, how close can the tail pipe be to the spring shackle (see photo)? The more I rotate pipe to bring tail level, the closer the pipe gets to shackle AND shock.
        3) How close can pipe be to the shock itself? Have no idea how much lateral movement there is of that shock when compressed and jouncing up and down.
        THANKS! (oh, included photo showing where pipe runs now, on right side under tranny pan. Is that really expected you have to take bolt out above the pipe and maneuver the pan out? I don't see any way you could rotate the pipe far enough away from tranny to pull the corner pan bolt straight down with the pipe in the way. Again, I know these aren't OEM pipes, so don't know where the tight spots simply "ARE" and you live with them, vs adjusting them out.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dan Timberlake View Post
          Most of the modern pictures show those semi-fishtail extensions point straight back.
          So does this brochure -http://www.studebaker-info.org/Brochures/1957/57ghbr1/57GHBR1D.jpg
          Thanks Dan; I never thought to check my original brochure, but looking close IN FRONT of the trim piece on left side, looks to me the pipe IS up a bit from the main section (ie: like I show my left side). So maybe mine will work out ok; if it truly has to be flat pipe in front and behind that last angle, at least one of my pipes were bent wrong; tried everything thinking intitially it DID have to be and just can't be done with out sitting against the shock on back section and/or crossmember up front.

          Comment


          • #6
            Are the Front and Rear Engine mounts in the RIGHT Hand Frame Holes for Left Hand Drive Cars?

            That would move the Trans. away from the Left Rear Exhaust Pipe, if you put them in the holes to the Left for Right Hand Drive by mistake.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
              Are the Front and Rear Engine mounts in the RIGHT Hand Frame Holes for Left Hand Drive Cars?

              That would move the Trans. away from the Left Rear Exhaust Pipe, if you put them in the holes to the Left for Right Hand Drive by mistake.
              Good thought StudeRich; I was hoping all the way home from work I had read the Shop Manual backwards again. :-) Unfortunately, no. :-( Here are my mounts looking at the Right side of the engine; all the way over to the Right.... (curious, what engines are the front holes in the front mount for, straight-six I assume? Longer block.....?) So again, anyone have answers to my 3 questions above so I can compromise position best I can, without for sure interfering with something? I know when time comes to put body and trim on, something may need to be bent professionally, but they'll need a hoist and I'll need to be able to drive the car to them to do so. Thanks!Click image for larger version

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              • #8
                I have installed several Silvertone pipes and they always fit perfectly. Don is meticulous. Are you using the correct length muffler?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 55s View Post
                  I have installed several Silvertone pipes and they always fit perfectly. Don is meticulous. Are you using the correct length muffler?
                  55S, I agree, the workmanship looks great. In regards to your question, I simply told Don my make and model ('57 Golden Hawk) and he delivered them to the Springfield Ill. Intl. meet for me personally. (yes, this project has been a SLOW boat)...

                  One thing I have NOT checked, is if 56 and 57 had any differences in pipe dimensions; my "57" is an early one, came off the line Oct 18th 1956, and has the '56 style shocks and such. But all the other components I DID look up were "all V8s except 58" (in 55-58 parts catalog). Worth checking though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 55s View Post
                    I have installed several Silvertone pipes and they always fit perfectly. Don is meticulous. Are you using the correct length muffler?
                    Could this be it? I called Don and left a message (at Silvertone) but not sure if he'll have the details on "serial number breaks" or not. BUT, I DID find last night in the 55-58 parts catalog that while the FRONT set of "exhaust pipes" are the same for both 56 and 57 C/K, the OUTLET pipe sets are DIFFERENT LENGTHS. Per photos below, the 56H C/K's are 58 7/32" and 57 7/8", while the '57H C/K has 56" for both. (WHY? What in the world changed under there, still two piece drive shaft, etc etc...; frames are same I believe, so 56J body maybe slightly different?).

                    Regardless, Don made and brought me 1957 C/K pipes, as that is what I requested "57 Golden Hawk" kit.....
                    There are no notes in the catalog for the C/K pipes delineating a "before and after" change between 56 and 57H C/K pipes!
                    .

                    But it begs the question because my '57 is a very early one; engine number is PS 1897; "VIN" is 6100867; body number is 809; production order is dated October 18th, 1956, completed October 24th, 1956. There IS a note on the '56H left outlet pipe, which isn't even a C/K, of a change at 56H #7,186,910. For example, I DO have the '56 style front shock absorber mount plates (vs later "T"), but this IS noted as occurring in the 57H-K7 just a few hundred cars AFTER mine, so again my body jives with production notes....

                    So if catalog is correct, the C/K would have been "the same" for all '57 models, even though mine was finished in 'Oct '56.....
                    Any thoughts on this, or known changes on the early '57 GHawks that the catalog doesn't bother noting?
                    (or, anyone have a relative serial number list to show when that 56H change would have been made? Don't know what date that is (I have my production order and original engine/matching number).
                    Thanks!
                    BarryClick image for larger version

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                    Last edited by bsrosell; 04-10-2019, 12:21 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I always forget whether it was '57 or '58 that the Spring Perch and asymmetrical mounted Rear Leaf Spring. change happened.
                      That COULD be the difference between a '56 and a '57 C or K Frame if it happened in '57.
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        UPDATE! Just got a call from Don from Silvertone. What a gentleman! Had a great chat. But in regards to my "problems" above, here it the key point I learned from Don; the very ends of the tailpipes will NOT be symmetrical with each other, because due to the goofy "gas tank to the left" design up through '58(??), the tailpipe needs to hang down a bit lower on the left (to avoid contact with gas tank on one side and spring shackles on the other) and come back UP to be the same height at the EXIT (outside the car, at the bumper). So the RIGHT side tailpipe should basically be 'flat' at the final angle, as mine is, and the left sides rear-most pipe will have a slight upward angle (non parallel to ground), kind of like I show in my very first photos. As you've all said, final adjustments (to not hit floor of body, to be ~inch away from shocks, to be LEVEL AT THE EXIT OF BOTH PIPES, need to be fine-tuned after the body is on. But I believe now, knowing both sides are NOT identical and symmetrical to each other, mine will be fine, and I'm about done with it until that distant day when the body goes on. Thanks to all who have chipped in here.

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                        • #13
                          Aren’t you glad you didn’t add some more bends?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 55s View Post
                            Aren’t you glad you didn’t add some more bends?
                            Learned a long time ago, the hard way (pocketwatches or cars); never correct or modify the piece that is original, known to be correct or most likely so, unless you REALLY know what you are doing. It is almost ALWAYS either "you", or a new non-original piece introduced to the equation that's the cause of your grief. (or the previous owner!) We joked in engineering school that "all you need is a bigger hammer" but I've found a hammer to the least used tool I own (sans nails!). My best tool is an old office chair to sit down in the shop and stare at or play with (or sift through manuals or posts), until I figure out what I am doing wrong. :-)

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