Paint: Epoxy or self etching primer

[jts359]

I have sanding the Champ down to bare metal. The hood , front panel and tailgate have been media blasted. Moisture has gotten under most of the paint and primer so there are hundreds of little black marks which were once rust on the metal, So which would you use epoxy or self etching primer ? Or I'm open to other ideas Thanks , Ed

[swvalcon]

Sand down the black marks and try to get clean metal as best that you can. Even if you have to get a small spot sand blaster and go after it with that. Sand anywhere that it has been sand blasted as sand will be embedded in the metal. If it was soda blasted wash with dawn dish wash soap and rinse with water and blow dry before putting anything over it. Clean everything up as good as you possible can and give everything two coats of epoxy. Try to get into any seams as well as possible. I use SPI brand epoxy as I feel it is the best on the market and price is right but that's up to you. The Spi has a 72 hour pot life normally and after a couple days of dry time sand great and is as durable as anything you will find. You can put filler over it after scuffing or paint right over it up to 48 hours. Go on U-tube and look for Spi Epoxy torturer test if you have any questions.

[345 DeSoto]

I used SPI White epoxy, over totally bare metal, on my Sky Hawk. It's all that, and a bag of chips...

[Mike Van Veghten]

jts -

Recommendation...DO NOT try to fully remove the black pits.
If you do, the body panels will be VERY wavy and you'll need a ton of filler primer and lotsa blocking to relevel the surface. A lot of primer thickness and hot sun DO NOT mix, ask me how I know..!

Your "self etching" primer is a much better idea. Clean the surfaces as best as you can without digging into the base metal in small areas. Clean properly and paint with the "self etching" primer.
IF...you have larger areas of rust pits, or deeper rust pits, I'd call your local paint shop and get the latest recommendation. This paint stuff changes all the time.

Mike

[swvalcon]

Mike check with any paint supplier and they will tell you Epoxy. Etch primer is late 70's-80's tech.

[bezhawk]

ANY rust ANYWHERE under paint will still spread. I doesn't matter if you cover it with diamond dust and thou$and dollar bills. Once it is started IT. WILL. SPREAD. Those black marks are rust. If you have crappy lacquer primer on it now, that will all have to come off. The bare metal will have to be phosphate treated, and the rust has to be removed. THEN and ONLY then should you use epoxy. NEVER use ANY epoxy OVER acid etch primer. The two are not compatable, and the acids in the etch primer will cause future delamination.
Before I got into the professional restoration business I worked my professional life as an automotive painter(amoung other things) I have painted nearly 10,000 cars. I am PPG, Dupont Sikkens, and ASE and ICAR certified.

[Colgate Studebaker]

Ed, there are several different methods and suggestions and cautions mentioned so far. If you check into Brad (Bezhawk) Bez's website and look at his work and results, you'll find (in my opinion) the finest quality and finish that can be had, period. I have followed his work for several years and I am continually amazed at the workmanship and final product he produces. He has willingly given me advice from time to time and that advice has always rendered a quality conclusion. If I were you I would listen to his advice whole heartedly. The other comments here also have merit and good results for their particular applications, so I am not knocking their suggestions. To each his own, I just happen to be greatly impressed with Brads work and final product. Hope this will help your decision, Bill.

[Hallabutt]

Ed,

You mentioned that rust had gotten under your primer and paint. I would like to know if this was under the original finish, or was this something that appeared after you had it media blasted?

[jts359]

The truck was stripped and repainted in the late 70's and then parked in 1983 , So in answer to your question its under a repaint. The PO put nos fenders on it at that time and there no issues there as they had factory primer on them . From info I was told by a friend of the PO NAPA paints were used , AKA martin senour, Ed

[Charlie D]

I chose SPI epoxy. Everything was taken to bare metal and the epoxy worked well. I liked the pot life as I could block sand for a day and come back with the epoxy a second time. I also experimented with Raptor Bed Liner over self-etching primer and SPI epoxy and the epoxy held up to a lot of abuse whereas the self-etching failed pretty quickly.

Charlie D.

[swvalcon]

There's a big difference between Etch prime and self-etching filler primer. The old what they call etch prime has been around for decades. The so called self etching primer is relatively new. Neither can stand up to a true epoxy primer.

[Hallabutt]

Thanks for verifying that it was a failed repaint. That's why unless show quality car I never consider stripping to bare metal. My apologies to all you professional painters out there. I've done nine cars, only one of which was totally stripped, and never had a paint failure. Better lucky then good I guess.

The reason I questioned whether the paint failure was on the original paint, or a repaint, was that I was trying to verify how widespread paint failure was from the factory. I have seen it twice, once on a black 1962 GT, and on my Dad's black 1963, Daytona htp. The GT belonged to a friend during the 70's. It appeared as rust under the original shinny black paint, during a repaint. I don't remember it being apparent until the car was being prepped for paint. The failure to my Dad's car appeared twenty years later. It showed itself as little squiggly worms of rust under the original undamaged, waxed paint, and was isolated in much of the front sheet metal. I still own the Daytona, and try to keep it original. The job would have been much easier if Studebaker had done a better job in the first place. Anyone care to comment?

[studegary]

Thanks for verifying that it was a failed repaint. That's why unless show quality car I never consider stripping to bare metal. My apologies to all you professional painters out there. I've done nine cars, only one of which was totally stripped, and never had a paint failure. Better lucky then good I guess.

The reason I questioned whether the paint failure was on the original paint, or a repaint, was that I was trying to verify how widespread paint failure was from the factory. I have seen it twice, once on a black 1962 GT, and on my Dad's black 1963, Daytona htp. The GT belonged to a friend during the 70's. It appeared as rust under the original shinny black paint, during a repaint. I don't remember it being apparent until the car was being prepped for paint. The failure to my Dad's car appeared twenty years later. It showed itself as little squiggly worms of rust under the original undamaged, waxed paint, and was isolated in much of the front sheet metal. I still own the Daytona, and try to keep it original. The job would have been much easier if Studebaker had done a better job in the first place. Anyone care to comment?

You think that Studebaker should have done a better job when it isn't all that bad 56 years later on a car that was designed to last with its original owner for three years!

[jts359]

Hi, Who sells this SPI epoxy ? Thanks Ed Found it Thanks

[wittsend]

Curious if anyone in California can get this product (epoxy primer). I tried buying a fan belt from Rock Auto and was denied numerous belts simply because the packaging did not contain the Prop. 65 warning that "chemicals used in the product might cause cancer." Note I wasn't being denied the belt because of what it contained..., rather because I wasn't simply being warned about it. I've heard auto paint in California is even more regulated and that is why I'm curious.