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Refresh our memory on the Borg-Warner T87E transmission

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  • Transmission: Refresh our memory on the Borg-Warner T87E transmission

    I ran across this in a truck spec book and IIRC, it's the straight 3-speed without overdrive version of the T85/T89. Since it was in the truck book would the T87E have the truck gearset? Which gearset did those used in Taxi/Marshall get?

    Anyone have a photo or illustration of the factory floor shift offered for the taxi?

    Maybe it's a western thing, but I can't ever remember seeing a truck with a T87E. Why would anyone buy a standard 3-speed? The overdrive just makes it so much more versatile, I can't imagine not choosing it.

    A post script, many of the RHD models seem to have been equipped with the T87E.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

  • #2
    The T-89 Long Tail (T-85) was used in the Taxis, we need to compare the Part numbers of the 1st. & 2nd. Gears and Cluster to tell if they are Low or High Gear Ratios.
    I have never heard of the T-87E. A Non-O.D. T-85 O.D. is a T-85.
    So MAYBE the Truck "T-85" really is a T87E? !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I always have wondered though, why we always "thought" maybe incorrectly, that they somehow called the Short Tail T-85 in the Truck with a Lower 1st. & 2nd. Gear a T-89, but in actuality, the Long Tail Car T-85 Type is definitely called a T-89 in the Chassis parts Catalog for '64S Taxis, and maybe for '58 Golden/Packard Hawks.

    UPDATE: Nope, I checked the '55-'58 Chassis parts Catalog and the Long Tail H.D. Overdrive '58 GH & PH Transmission is a 1545133, T-85.

    Further Fogging the issue is the fact that Stude. never used a Overdrive T-89 in Y1 Taxis, only Std. Trans.
    The '62S Y1 used a T-90 Long tail with a Floor shift conversion, the '63-'64S used a T-89 Long Tail Std. WITH a Top Shifter!

    But the Long Tail '58 G/Hawk & P/Hawk T-85, only was used with the R-11 Overdrive, no Std's.

    I also just leaned that a T-87E was used in old Ford Flathead F-1 Pickups, and DID have a Top Shifter built in.
    Last edited by StudeRich; 12-02-2018, 03:46 PM.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      OK Jack, I checked both the '59-'64 Chassis Parts Catalog for a T-89 Taxi, and the 7E-8E Truck Parts Catalog, and the Low Gear is a 1688389 and the 2nd. Gear is a 1688392 in BOTH, so both LOW Gear ratios.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
        The T-89 Long Tail (T-85) was used in the Taxis, we need to compare the Part numbers of the 1st. & 2nd. Gears and Cluster to tell if they are Low or High Gear Ratios.
        I have never heard of the T-87E. A Non-O.D. T-85 O.D. is a T-85.
        So MAYBE the Truck "T-85" really is a T87E? !!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I always have wondered though, why we always "thought" maybe incorrectly, that they somehow called the Short Tail T-85 in the Truck with a Lower 1st. & 2nd. Gear a T-89, but in actuality, the Long Tail Car T-85 Type is definitely called a T-89 in the Chassis parts Catalog for '64S & V Taxis and maybe for '58 Golden Hawks.

        UPDATE: Nope, I checked the '55-'58 Chassis parts Catalog and the Long Tail H.D. Overdrive '58 GH & PH Transmission is a 1545133, T-85.

        I also just leaned that a T-87E was used in old Ford Flathead F-1 Pickups, and DID have a Top Shifter built in. That does not sound like anything ever used by Stude.
        Rich,
        The truck version of the T85 is definitely a T89C.
        The T87E is in the '63-64 8E Truck Specification Book. I looked deeper and the mystery maybe is clarified. I found different gear ratios listed, so it's definitely a different transmission:
        T89C - 3.17, 1.75, R 3.76 and the shift lever is on the steering column
        T87E - 3.714, 1.871, R 4.588 and the shift lever is on the transmission.
        As I mentioned earlier, it was specified as the 3-speed for RHC models. One explanation could be a RHC column shift was too costly to engineer, so Studebaker used a Ford truck variant which came with a floor shifter.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

        Comment


        • #5
          Jack, I have the factory blue print of the factory floor shift for the Taxi. I made a couple of them, then threw them in a box, since there was no factory shifters to be found. I picked up 2 factory shifters for Taxis at a swap meet in Oregon City, but one was for parts. So any other shifter brackets will have to use Hurst or other shifter bodies and will need different hole placement.

          Comment


          • #6
            A rare item Alan, that would be used on the '62S Y1 Taxi T-90, a H.D. version of the T-86 Long Tail Standard Trans. without O.D. I mentioned in my update of post #2.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Many trucks were only used locally by tradespeople and most all taxis only saw local use. There would be nearly no benefit in buying an overdrive for these vehicles. Also, most commercial vehicles are bought with an eye on initial cost.
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

              Comment


              • #8
                The '62S Y1 used a T-90 Long tail with a Floor shift conversion, the '63-'64S used a T-89 Long Tail Std. WITH a Top Shifter!
                Rich, it's difficult to keep all the numbers straight, but isn't the above backward? The T90 could accept the old top shifter, but the T89 would require a floor shifter conversion.

                As you said, the T87E was used as the heavy duty 3-speed in '48-51 Ford F1 - F4s.



                That it was only used in RHC Champ V8 trucks is probably why none of us ever saw one. Any estimate of how many of those were built?

                jack vines
                Last edited by PackardV8; 12-02-2018, 04:40 PM.
                PackardV8

                Comment


                • #9
                  I bought a complete long-tail T86 with top shift, meant for taxi service, from Newman and Altman, years ago. Still have it, brand new.
                  Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The 1962 Taxi shifter looks like a T10 shifter.
                    I had one on eBay awhile ago and have an other one if someone wants it.
                    Only 1962 Taxis had it, later taxis used the top shifter.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rkapteyn View Post
                      The 1962 Taxi shifter looks like a T10 shifter.
                      I had one on eBay awhile ago and have an other one if someone wants it.
                      Only 1962 Taxis had it, later taxis used the top shifter.
                      I sent you a PM about the shifter
                      1962 Champ

                      51 Commander 4 door

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                        The T-89 Long Tail (T-85) was used in the Taxis, we need to compare the Part numbers of the 1st. & 2nd. Gears and Cluster to tell if they are Low or High Gear Ratios.
                        I have never heard of the T-87E. A Non-O.D. T-85 O.D. is a T-85.
                        So MAYBE the Truck "T-85" really is a T87E? !!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        I always have wondered though, why we always "thought" maybe incorrectly, that they somehow called the Short Tail T-85 in the Truck with a Lower 1st. & 2nd. Gear a T-89, but in actuality, the Long Tail Car T-85 Type is definitely called a T-89 in the Chassis parts Catalog for '64S Taxis, and maybe for '58 Golden/Packard Hawks.

                        UPDATE: Nope, I checked the '55-'58 Chassis parts Catalog and the Long Tail H.D. Overdrive '58 GH & PH Transmission is a 1545133, T-85.

                        Further Fogging the issue is the fact that Stude. never used a Overdrive T-89 in Y1 Taxis, only Std. Trans.
                        The '62S Y1 used a T-90 Long tail with a Floor shift conversion, the '63-'64S used a T-89 Long Tail Std. WITH a Top Shifter!

                        But the Long Tail '58 G/Hawk & P/Hawk T-85, only was used with the R-11 Overdrive, no Std's.

                        I also just learned that a T-87E
                        was used in old Ford Flathead F-1 Pickups, and DID have a Top Shifter built in.
                        T-87D Floor Shift = 1948/52 F1/F5, P3 (Parcel Delivery), B5 (School Bus - 1948/51), C5 COE

                        T-87D Column Shift = 1953/56 F250/500.

                        T-87E Column Shift = 1957/65 F350 // 1966 F350 240/300 I-6 only.

                        Source: 1948/56; 1957/63; 1964/72 Ford Truck Parts Catalogs.

                        Pic: 1951/52 example:

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Last edited by WinM1895; 12-05-2018, 06:32 PM.

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