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  • Engine: Oil overfill

    I just got a 51 Champion that smokes light blue smoke. Checked compression and all are about 125 + or- 5 psi. The oil is overfull about 5/8" on the stick. Could this be causing it to smoke?
    L.D.

  • #2
    Welcome to the Forum.
    Yes it could. But Champion engines are also notorious for getting worn valve guides. You might try a thicker oil at the proper level.
    Nice day to all.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Sounds to me that you are getting gas in your oil, and the oil is so thinned out that it's passing by the rings. Sniff the oil on the dip stick, and watch to see whether the oil drips off the end stick.

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      • #4
        Gas in the oil was one problem I found when I bought my 1950 Champion, which was restored 20 years before I bought it.
        That was a secondary reason for the electric fuel pump I installed, and blocked off the fuel pump hole.

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        • #5
          Drained oil to proper level. Still smokes but not as bad. I don't know weight of oil but not real light and oil isn't fuel diluted. I am wondering if stuck oil rings will cause this?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by christophe View Post
            Welcome to the Forum.
            Yes it could. But Champion engines are also notorious for getting worn valve guides. You might try a thicker oil at the proper level.
            Nice day to all.
            The REAL cause of Oil burning in Champion Sixes is the excess Oil splashing around in the Valve Chambers and being drawn into the Intake Valve Guides and Valves.
            This is NOT caused by worn Valve Guides alone, although that could contribute, but by badly worn Valve LIFTER Bores in the Block.

            Several high quality Piston Ring Mfg.'s in the 50's & 60's included a Lifter Oil Galley RESTRICTOR Disc on a wire to insert in the rear of the Block. It was a Washer with a Orifice: small hole drilled in the center to reduce Oil Volume.

            They had SO many complaints that their New rings did not do their job, that this was necessary.
            Hastings for Sure, & probably Perfect Circle, Sealed Power and McQuay are some of these Ring Co. names that I recall.

            You can check inside the Valve Doors for the sheet metal Oil Baffle Plates that are SUPPOSED to be in both chambers to surround the Lifters.

            If your Oil Pan does not take exactly 5 Qts. to show full on the dipstick there may be a problem with the Dipstick or the dipstick TUBE.

            With a Drop-in cartridge Canister Type Fram Oil Filter, AFTER it fills it should take 1 more for a total of 6 Qts. and read "FULL".

            I would drain the Oil, change the Filter (if equipped) and add fresh 10/30 weight Valvoline ZR-1 Racing Oil that includes the ZDDP required additives.
            Then check the oil level and watch it carefully for any increase caused by an overly Rich Fuel mixture, internally leaking Fuel Pump or a Head Gasket leak.
            Last edited by StudeRich; 10-18-2018, 01:34 PM.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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            • #7
              Judging by your compression figures, I doubt the rings are stuck. You should use the car for a while and see what happens, especially if its been dormant for some time. Sometimes, engines quit smoking after oil level gets under a certain point. You should also try to descend a slight hill in 3rd gear without accelerating. Then, accelerating when the car has passed the bottom of the hill. If you get a nice blue cloud, the valve guides are worn out. If you get the cloud while accelerating on flat roads, the trouble comes from the rings. Also, I often saw cars quit smoking upon changing the oil brand.
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Can that restrictor be added with engine in car? Are they available now?

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                • #9
                  Easily installed from the rear, right side of the Block through a removed 1/8 In. Pipe Plug Hole, but today you would have to make the Restrictor with exactly the Right size washer, drilled Hole and short piece of small wire/cable.

                  If someone here still has one to get the dimensions, that would allow you and anyone to make one.
                  StudeRich
                  Second Generation Stude Driver,
                  Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                  • #10
                    There was also a restrictor that was made of a disc mounted on the end of a stiff spring wire. The instructions that came with the piston rings showed how and where to insert it.
                    Last edited by RadioRoy; 10-18-2018, 09:29 PM.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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                    • #11
                      OK, I just need to find one with instructions or how to make one. Anyone?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ldj1002 View Post
                        OK, I just need to find one with instructions or how to make one. Anyone?
                        Best bet is to find an original. Not easy to make, although I am not familiar with the type that Rich describes.

                        They were included with many Champion piston ring sets. Someone who sells engine parts should be able to find one in their parts stock.
                        RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                        17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                        10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                        10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                        4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                        5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                        56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                        60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I checked Studebaker parts and they don't know what I describe, they want part #.

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                          • #14
                            There is no Studebaker part number because the restrictor was designed and manufactured by the companies that made the piston rings.

                            Keep looking. Someone who rebuilds engines will know what you want and will have one. I wish I could point you directly to one, but persistence and determination will eventually pay off.
                            RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                            17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                            10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                            10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                            4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                            5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                            56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                            60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              "You can check inside the Valve Doors for the sheet metal Oil Baffle Plates that are SUPPOSED to be in both chambers to surround the Lifters."

                              Rich makes a great suggestion.
                              These baffles laid in the lifter galleys (one per galley), and were kept in place by the 2 bolts that fasten each valve door.
                              To my knowledge they were used on all flat Champions from 1939 on.
                              My experience is that thru the years they were sometimes not replaced after a valve adjustment?
                              As an aside, being a 1932 design, Commander engines did not initially use them, but were added on the post-war Commander 6's.
                              My 1941 Commander (without baffles) used too much oil after the rebuild, and installing those baffles basically cut the loss in half, to like a quart every 1500 miles.

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