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Avanti power steering + 40 years = kaboom!

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  • Avanti power steering + 40 years = kaboom!

    OK, so far I have had a crappy day. I was SUPPOSED to be at the car
    show in Santa Barbara and finally meet "Starlightchamp" in person. My
    Avanti had OTHER plans. I drove it to work on Friday, to wash & get
    ready for Saturday. When I got home friday night, I noticed something
    was leaking on the drivers side. Oil everywhere. I thought it might
    be the new fuel pump, but it turned out fine. I realized it was power
    steering the fluid was brown like oil, with a VERY slight red tint. I
    thought that I would add a stop leak, since its been leaking a LITTLE
    for a while now. This morning I added the stop leak, and went to the
    car wash to clean up the car under the hood. Then we hit the road for
    the show. We got halfway to Santa Barbara, & the power steering died.
    I could tell by the groaning when I barely turned the wheel. After we
    stopped it was obvious, I have never seen so much fluid!! It was even
    coming out of the wheel on the drivers side! I cut the belt off, to
    keep the pump from burning up, and we drove back home. Guess how much
    fun it is to steer an Avanti without a functioning pump and 245/45R17
    tires?? Actually, it wasnt as bad as I thought it was going to be, I
    just felt it better to go home then continue on to the show. People
    dont need to see an Avanti, 'dipped', in oil. I stopped at the car
    wash AGAIN when we got home, and cleaned up the HUGE mess (made the
    first one look like childs play) & drove home. I THOUGHT that being
    disconnected, the pump would stop leaking - but NO!! When I got home
    it was obvious that it wanted to keep leaking, so I removed it. I blew
    through the pressure line and forced the fluid out of the system. Off
    to the car wash I went AGAIN! I drove back home, and there was STILL
    fluid coming out of the hoses (oh and the pump is leaking on the floor
    in the garage[:I])- in a drip pan.

    So, the pump is off, the main pressure hose is looking pretty sorry. I
    guess I need to order the repair kit from SI. It comes with a rebuild
    kit for the pump, & the ram, & all the hoses.

    Who are the experts on THIS repair? I might as well to a tech article
    on the power steering too! I WANTED to replace the box with a quicker
    one, but I guess I will do the shorter arms like others, and increase
    the caster to fix the darting.

    Oh the joys of Studebakering!!

    Tom

    '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

  • #2
    What do you know, I've been working on the power steering today also. A while back I replaced the seals in the cylinder and is easy once it's apart. I had to use one of the tie rod separators that uses the bolt that pushes on the tapered shaft of the ball joint. No room for the fork type sperators to work. I had a so called Stude seal kit and while the seal it self worked, the plastic spacer between the seal and circlip was too thick, so I had to reuse the old one. You will need to have the pump functioning so you can pressure the old seal out. Getting the pitman arm off to get to the control valve isn't any fun. There's not much room to work and I ended up dropping th exhaust pipe and removing the starter. There was no room to get a regular gear puller in there, so I spent several hours making my own puller out of a bolt, nut, 1/4" steel plate and a bunch of welding. It's not very pretty but it did work fine. Tomorrow I plan on working on the control valve. If you need hoses, take the old one to an auto parts store or Caterpillar dealer and they can make them cheaper than stock parts. Good luck, nothing really hard, just very tedious.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Tom , Something must be in the air. The pump on my 64 died yesterday.Ordered a seal kit and pressure hose from S.I.Your right, I didn't think they could hold that much fluid.[:0]We just call it Studebaker rust prevention.

      63 Twin Supercharged Avanti
      64 Avanti R3w/NOS
      88LSC Avanti 350 Supercharged w/NOS

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow, sounds like a pain. I worked on my dads '64 Hawk power steering
        some years ago, only changed the hoses and rebuilt the pump itself. I
        am hoping to avoid doing the ram or the control valve for now.

        After I posted the above, I thought of a way to stop the fluid from
        coming out of the hoses, I pushed the flare into the return hose and
        slapped a clamp on it. That worked pretty good. I think I might have
        another leak though - not power steering. The news gets better and
        better each day. Might be the oil seal in the freshly rebuilt fuel
        pump. I will pull the vent out tomorrow and take a look inside.[xx(][V]

        Oh, get this, after I got the fluid stopped from the hoses, I went to
        the car wash AGAIN to clean up .. thats 4 times in one day .. at the
        car wash there was a bunch of vehicles there due to a shooting at the
        gas station next door (no, not a common occurance) .. then this idiot
        starts backing up and I had to jet into reverse and gun it to move the
        car back to avoid him, all the while reving the gaspacks to get his
        attention .. he ALMOST hit me!! (No the horn doesnt work). Had I not
        done that, he WOULD have hit me. God, I was shaking after that. Big
        ol van conversion. I JUST got that bumper straightened and rechromed.

        Edit:
        Hey Karl .. you were typing while I was typing. Yah .. I think that
        the Studebaker power steering system holds 42 quarts of fluid. Thats
        just a guess, but I cant be too far off.

        Tom
        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

        Comment


        • #5
          I have a Daytona wagon with power steering. The return hose split and I got out the books to see how to fix the problem.
          Are you ready for this?
          To remove the hoses on the valve control (Bendix) it's necessary to remove the motor. Yeah, to replace the hoses the motor has to be pulled. Nothing but fun.[}] After I replaced the return hose, the new one broke too. Oi.[V]

          If it's necessary to remove the pitman arm the recomendation is the same; remove the motor. Fun, fun, fun.

          Lotsa Larks!
          K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
          Ron Smith
          Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
          K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
          Ron Smith
          Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

          Comment


          • #6
            I replaced my PS hoses and rebuilt the control valve and pump, a while back.
            I recommend removing the reach rod and control valve if you are going to replace hoses. I would replace all four hoses. While it's out, replace the seals in the control valve.
            It's also a good time to replace the pitman arm shaft seal, in the steering box.
            Here's the puller you need for the pitman arm: http://www.autozone.com/in_our_store...pitman_arm.htm . I bought one that looks exactly like it from J. C. Whitney; but I don't see it in their current catalog. It's a very common cheap tool. You need to replace the screw with a short bolt, reversed so the head will bear against the shaft. Mine was 5/8" fine thread. That way there is plenty of room. The shaft isn't tapered and mine came apart easily.
            I used a "pickle fork" at the bell crank end of the reach rod. I didn't want to just unscrew the control valve from the reach rod. Total length is important, to center the steering.
            Since your Avanti is a '63, it may actually have the pressure and return hoses pictured in the parts books and the SI catalog. They have a straight tube, extending forward, at the control valve; and route up behind the steering box.
            Replacement hoses, including the ones I got from SI, aren't like that. The tubes curve to the rear at the control valve. The flexible hose curves up and forward, around the front of the steering box.
            I posted pictures of the hose positioning on the Avanti yahoo site. It's easiest to tighten the hoses at the control valve on the bench; and train them into position as you install the reach rod and control valve assembly.
            Mike M.

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm confused....

              "Guess how much
              fun it is to steer an Avanti without a functioning pump and 245/45R17
              tires?? Actually, it wasnt as bad as I thought it was going to be,..."

              Then, from 05/12/2006 .....

              "Its 'funny' that you guys are saying that the wider tires are harder
              to steer. I noticed the complete opposite."

              "The Avanti got the 245/60's, and then I recently went to 245/45's on
              a 17 inch rim .. that made it easier to steer."

              [?]

              I want to add PS to my 58 wagon. But from what I read earlier, maybe I could just get the same effect by going to wider tires. Which is it?

              Miscreant adrift in
              the BerStuda Triangle!!

              1957 Transtar 1/2ton
              1960 Larkvertible V8
              1958 Provincial wagon
              1953 Commander coupe
              No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

              Comment


              • #8
                Biggs, thats with an operating PS setup. When the PS stops working,
                things change quite suddenly. I think its because the power ram is
                adding extra resistance now, since there is no pressure coming from
                the PS pump. Now, when I turn the wheels, I extending & compressing
                the ram, and forcing the fluid in and out of it. Its actually got
                easier to steer as the fluid keeps getting forced out. My 60 Hawk
                was manual steering, and I noticed it got easier to steer when I went
                from the 195/75R15 to the 245/60R14 tires. The Avanti felt easier to
                steer when I went from the Hawks 245/60R14 to the 245/45R17. It could
                be advanced tread design? I dont know.

                I cant believe how sore I am today. I was supposed to cut the hole in
                the wall in the back of my garage today, but my back doesnt seem to
                like the idea of holding a circular saw over my head.[xx(]

                Mike M, so the SI hose route differently then whats on the car now? I
                dont frequent the Avanti Yahoo group, can you email me the photos, or
                send me the link? I wasnt too pleased with the routing of the hose,
                it made the metal end on the pressure hose vibrate against the inner
                fender on the Avanti. Does that mean that the engine doesnt have to
                be removed - as was a previous post? It that thing is coming out, I
                am tempted to just remove the ram, and plug all the flared ports in
                the control valve. Then muscle it around for the time being!!

                Tom
                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                Comment


                • #9
                  What a day. It seems that the oil seal in the fuel pump has failed
                  and there IS oil coming out of the vent also. So the rebuilt fuel
                  pump needs to be opened up again, and the power steering is broke. I
                  went to buy some hose pinchers from Kragen to make it easier to take
                  the fuel pump off and not worry about gas pouring out, and when I got
                  home I noticed that someone hit my 93 Camaro Z28 while it was parked
                  in the street. Yah, this is the same one that my wife slammed into a
                  curb two weeks ago. The impact is 18 inches to the bottom of the hit,
                  so it was likely someone in an SUV or truck AGAIN. Last time it was
                  hit in a parking lot and they drove up ontop of the hood. I think
                  the insurance company will part it out, the blue book on a 93 Camaro
                  Z28 with over 200,000 isnt worth a new front clip. Thats what it is
                  going to need, the nose is crushed in, and the drivers fender has the
                  front edge broken off. I can not even relay the level of anger. My
                  wife got into it with a neighbor because he left a note on her Camaro
                  for parking on the side of his house overnight. She explained to him
                  that he DOESNT own the street, and the next time we see him dumping
                  hazzardous fluids down the storm drain we WILL call the police. I lost
                  it, punched a hole in the door to the garage, and then went out & cut
                  the hole for a rear facing garage door. My adenline level was so high
                  I didnt even feel the pain from yesterday - or my hand. Got the hole
                  cut, the Avanti back into the garage where its safe. Broke up the old
                  stucco from the wall. Need to do finishing, but having the door on
                  helped keep the dust out of the garage. Looks like my temper returned.

                  Tom
                  '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                  Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                  I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Pictures of the car :







                    Pictures of the new hole :







                    Tom
                    Last edited by sbca96; 05-29-2014, 10:33 PM. Reason: update missing pictures
                    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey buddy, I feel your pain. Been in the same boat before. Just try to remember that one of these days, everything is going to start going your way. Life seems to be like balance scales; everything evens out eventually, so just hang in there for now. Oh, sometimes there's nothing like a good old fashioned hole cuttin' to vent some frustration!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes .. its funny, I didnt HAVE to break up the part that I removed
                        with a sledge hammer ... but DANG it felt good![}]

                        Tom
                        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tom your luck has got to change for the better, and when it does maybe you can look back and be glad it's over. I'll be pulling for you!

                          GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

                            I have a Daytona wagon with power steering. The return hose split and I got out the books to see how to fix the problem.
                            Are you ready for this?
                            To remove the hoses on the valve control (Bendix) it's necessary to remove the motor. Yeah, to replace the hoses the motor has to be pulled. Nothing but fun.[}] After I replaced the return hose, the new one broke too. Oi.[V]
                            If it's necessary to remove the pitman arm the recomendation is the same; remove the motor. Fun, fun, fun.
                            Where did you hear or see that the engine has to be removed? [?][?] I replaced the return hose on my '64 Avanti last year working on by back under the car. I had trouble threading the fitting in to the control valve, but otherwise it was no problem. Also, I removed a power steering system from one car and installed it on my '64 Daytona Wagonaire without pulling either engine. I didn't use any kind of puller to remove the pitman arms either.
                            When I ordered my Wagonaire I didn't order power steering because my '61 Cruiser didn't have it and I didn't see a need for it. Well, I was wrong about the wagon. So, I found a wrecked '64 Daytona hardtop with a complete set. I took off the pitman shaft nut and found that the arm didn't come off easily (pretty green then). So, I went up to the salvage yard office and asked if they had a puller I could borrow. The man there said "come with me sonny. I'll show you how to get that off". He grabbed a big pry bar and a four-pound hammer and took off. He put the pry bar down against the inside of the pitman arm and put pressure on it. Then he whacked the pitman arm a couple times at the shaft and the arm popped right off. He used the same technique on the tie rod ends and it worked there too. When I got home, I applied the technique to get the manual steering pitman arm and tie rods off my Wagonaire. It worked just as slick for me as it did for him.
                            Tomorrow I'm replacing all four hoses on my Wagonaire (one of the 42-year-old hoses finally blew out). I'll report on whether or not I succeed in changing them without pulling the engine or pitman arm assembly.


                            [img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/64%20Daytona%20Convertible/Copy%20of%20DaytonaConvert7-20-06.JPG[/img=right]

                            Paul Johnson
                            '53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
                            '64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
                            '64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
                            Museum R-4 engine
                            Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
                            '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If pounding with a big hammer has worked for you, more power to you. Maybe I'm just no good at swinging a hammer, but I'd have something broken doing that. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but the problem in whacking the pitman shaft is that when you do so, the energy from the impact doesn't stop at the pitman arm, but instead travels through the shaft, hits whatever is immovable at the end (cam lever screw, sector shaft cover and bearing or gearbox casting in this application), is reflected back through the shaft and then hits the arm, popping it off if you're lucky. That's how the arm is "pushed" off the shaft towards the end being struck. Anyone who's knapped flint making an arrowhead knows what I'm talking about. Flint or chert is very hard (a relative of glass) and the little rounded "bulb of percussion" left after a piece pops off is the focal point where the energy reverses direction and takes the top layer of rock off with it. That's why I shuddered a while back when someone mentioned striking a rear axle to pop a brake drum off. It isn't the inertia of a swinging 4 pound sledge that's the problem, it's whatever solid piece that serves at the focal point to reverse that inertia. With a puller, the only compression is in the area from the end of the shaft to the arm and that's a steady compressive force and not a sudden impact. But on the bright side, you can't swing a sledge with the engine in place. I guess that's nature's way of keeping us from tearing things up!

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