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Main and rod bearings

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  • Engine: Main and rod bearings

    The R2's iffy oil pressure though theoretically acceptable at 10 lbs/1000 RPM was heading me close to disaster. A few more miles and I'd have reap problems. The car sat for 17 years before I got it, and apparently in dirty, acidic oil. All were brinnelled, many were way down to copper. Three rod bearing were just starting to turn in the rods and were getting no oil. Yet the engine sounded fine.

    Anyway, the crank is being checked at the shop to see if it can be polished, or how far it must be turned.


    There has been some talk here about some US bearings that aren't any good and no Chinese bearings are any good, and so forth. For you veteran builders, who makes good bearings for the 289? ( and I am changing cam bearings as well)
    Ron Dame
    '63 Champ

  • #2
    Why were the rods not getting oil were the mains turned.
    Hawkowner

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    • #3
      I don't know yet. Mains were in place, three rods were starting to turn, which shuts the flow off to them. The history of the car is vague, it seems it sat in poor conditions for 17 years. The guy I bought it from got it started by dribbling gas down the carb, but I don't think he did a thing before he did that. I'm seeing scores in the cylinders that are consistent with an engine that was dry-cranked, and compression was not what it should have been. I'll do the full Monty on it at this point. What is interesting, is that in 59,000 miles, it appears to have been rebuilt with few miles. It certainly has been balanced and is clean inside. Then maybe driven a bit and parked?

      Originally posted by Hawkowner View Post
      Why were the rods not getting oil were the mains turned.
      Hawkowner
      Ron Dame
      '63 Champ

      Comment


      • #4
        That sounds like a case for the often talked about here, MAJOR Oil Passage Roding, Rifle or Engine Brush Cleaning etc. AFTER turning the Crank and Boring and Tanking the Block!

        I do sell the Tri-Metal H.D. Avanti (like Original) Clevite 77 Rod Bearings in my full Rebuild Kits.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
          That sounds like a case for the often talked about here, MAJOR Oil Passage Roding, Rifle or Engine Brush Cleaning etc. AFTER turning the Crank and Boring and Tanking the Block!

          I do sell the Tri-Metal H.D. Avanti (like Original) Clevite 77 Rod Bearings in my full Rebuild Kits.
          Check your PM
          Ron Dame
          '63 Champ

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
            That sounds like a case for the often talked about here, MAJOR Oil Passage Roding, Rifle or Engine Brush Cleaning etc. AFTER turning the Crank and Boring and Tanking the Block!
            Each time engine cleaning is mentioned, it's mandatory I remind that the rockers must be disassembled, the soft plugs in the ends of the shafts removed and the shafts rodded out with solvent and a long brush.

            jack vines
            PackardV8

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
              Each time engine cleaning is mentioned, it's mandatory I remind that the rockers must be disassembled, the soft plugs in the ends of the shafts removed and the shafts rodded out with solvent and a long brush.

              jack vines
              That's in the plan. Question: I assume rockers should be put back in order much like lifters and push rods?
              Ron Dame
              '63 Champ

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, I always try to keep valve train parts in the same location.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lots of good advice but you need to "Resize" the rods, they are probably out of round. Luck Doofus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Way back in the 1980's, I did a complete rebuild of a 259. Armed with not a lot of experience, but a shop manual and an eager spirit for the adventure. I probably spent more time making fixtures to keep things in order than actually mechanic work. I bought some old wooden military Ammo boxes and used them for organizing parts. Each head was placed in a box and marked left & right (even though they are interchangeable). I had a local machine shop prep the heads and they promised to keep all components in order. New valves, but the lifters, pushrods, rockers, springs, etc., were cleaned and reused. I did the block work, like main, rod, and cam bearings, rings, timing gears, etc.

                    I have a good friend who is one of the best mechanics I have ever seen. He would come by in the evenings, look over my shoulder, offer encouragement, and on the cam bearings, he was really a big help by giving me hands-on assistance. Where he made the biggest impact, was in using the measuring tools, like micrometers, and calipers, etc., to confirm what was OK, and what needed tweaking or replacement. If I recall correctly, he even gapped some of the rings when installing them on the pistons. Something I would probably never done on my own. Back then, I was self-employed, and after completing the rebuild, I reinstalled that engine in my '60 four-door Lark and proceeded to drive it as my business car. I airconditioned the car and put over 40,000 miles on it before retiring it back to cruise-in status, and finally, retired it to "needs, upholstery, paint, body, & suspension work status. After sitting for years, the engine will need a good tune-up, but not a rebuild.

                    So, Ron, I'm not sure of your skills, but if you have a competent local machine shop that is willing to take on the machine work at a reasonable price, let those guys do the precision work. I don't even know if the shop I used is still in business. If they are, probably the folks that did my work are retired now. If you want to expand your regional search for a shop, let me know and I'll ask around.
                    John Clary
                    Greer, SC

                    SDC member since 1975

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Doofus, resizing the rods is in the plans too. I borrowed a bore gauge, and while there was only a carbon ridge and there is virtually no taper (under 0.001") at least one cylinder has scores that I am afraid will not hone out.
                      John, I finally found a good machine shop, though it's about 25 miles away in Hendersonville. They will tank the block, hone or bore it, resize the rods, install cam bearings, fit the rings, and turn or polish (I hope) the crank. Basically any skills I am uncertain I have, or that I don't have the equipment to perform. I'll mostly be cleaning and reassembling. I've not assessed the heads yet, but I know I'll gasket match the ports (boy are these bad), and if the valvles can just be lapped and the guides are OK, I'll do that. I still think this is a low milage rebuild that sat too long and maybe wasn't that clean when rebuilt, so the heads may need nothing but cleaning and seals.
                      Ron Dame
                      '63 Champ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Your engine, your decision, but FWIW, hand lapping valves is way old school CASO. Very few shops today let grinding compound anywhere near a valve job. It's almost impossible to get it all rinsed off both the valve and the seat and the head.

                        Since you have no way of knowing what was done to the valves and the guides in the previous rebuild, have your machine shop check the ID and OD carefully. We've seen reused valves in knurled guides when both were worn past reusing and both should have been replaced.

                        jack vines
                        PackardV8

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                        • #13
                          OK, thanks Jack
                          Ron Dame
                          '63 Champ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I could never understand the merit of valve grinding compound, when a valve and seat are perfectly ground with a perfect finish then destroying the surface with a compound that just scratches both surfaces and destroys the ground surfaces. There are some different theories about valve grinding surfaces some are ground at a 45 degree angle only and some are at three different angles, two of the ground angles clear the seat and only one portion (45 degree) does touch the valve seat. The part that does touch the seat is a band of only about 1/16 - 3/32. To destroy that ground surface with valve grinding compound would be somewhat counter intuitive.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by altair View Post
                              I could never understand the merit of valve grinding compound, ... etc.
                              Agreed if you have like new performance and long range use in mind. The canister of grinding compound should have the letters "CASO" on them because, yes, then it is applicable.

                              I typically buy the $1,000 car and then drive it less than 1,000 miles in 10 years. And I own a number of these cars. Therefore the price of a decent valve job just doesn't factor into the cost equation. The last time I did one of my dare I call it "valve jobs" I used a gasket punch on wet/dry paper (about 180 to start but going progressively finer) and made a bunch of tiny discs. I used spray adhesive to hold three equally spaced discs to a sacrificial valve. I then oiled the guide well, place it in the head and use a drill to spin the valve and clean the seat. I then chucked the valve in a drill press and and use a file to clean the worn area of the valve.

                              I then bring these two “prepared” surfaces together and lap the valves. This typically indents the valve so that goes back to the drill press and at a slightly different angle above and below the seat area I use the file to remove the effective “ridge.” At times the margin gets thin so I’ll take the file there, enlarge it and round it off to prevent edges that can get hot. In essence I’ve put the three angle cut on the valve, rather than the seat. And while addressing the margin the valve has actually gotten smaller but never to the point that it is below the seat. (Side comment here. I find it interesting that people often talk about going to larger valves but if one does not modify the ports throat area then you are just creating a larger obstruction for the incoming air/fuel mixture to go around.) Therefore the smaller the valve (with sufficient margin and covering the seat) might actually be considered a ‘performance enhancement’ in a stock sized seat. It theoretically compensates for the performance stealing wide seats, which by the way transfer heat exceptionally well and make burned valves a thing of the past. LOL

                              Anyway, if your thinking what kind of CRaZeY person does this, well a CASO crazy person. I just kind of mindlessly work this into my free time waiting for dinner or other time delays in my life. Why at say $250 per valve job after four cars I’ve save $1,000 to buy yet another $1,000 car! And the more cars I have the less I use any one of them so the more applicable a CASO valve job becomes. Why it is almost a perpetual motion machine that becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Laugh, shake your head, whatever. But, hey, “it works for me.”
                              '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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