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Flanged axle info needed

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  • Rear Axle: Flanged axle info needed

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    I recently got a model 44 rear end with flanged axles, and I would like to use it and replace the model 27 in my Lark VIII. My shop manual doesn’t cover these units so I was wondering what’s up with this axle nut; I assume it holds the hub on the shaft. I’m going to grease the bearings and replace seals before I install it in the car-is there any reason to remove this nut? If so what torque does it need to be?
    I assume the axle and hub come out and the bearings stay on the shaft to clean and grease. Thanks for any advice.
    Bruce

  • #2
    Ah, Bruce, hate to tell you but that is a tapered axle setup in your picture, not a flanged axle.
    Here is a pic from the '65/'66 shop manual showing a flanged axle at the top and a tapered axle just below. The flanged axle won't have that big nut. The nut holds the separate hub onto the tapered axle shaft; the flanged axle doesn't have a separate hub.
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    Last edited by r1lark; 09-24-2018, 04:01 PM.
    Paul
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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    • #3
      I didn't use a torque wrench on my 50 Land Cruiser when I did the brakes in late spring, but I tighten the nut to about 80 foot pounds.

      Be sure the taper is smooth, clean, and dry, as that's what transfers the turning torque from the engine to the wheels, as well as the key.

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      • #4
        If you remove the hub you will need to re-install that tapered hub...... get the shop manual read it at least twice and follow the instructions to the letter.
        Consider this fair warning here is what can happen: If everything is not done correctly you could experience axle failure. If you are unlucky enough to be using the stock single cylinder master for braking it is very likely you will also at he same time experience a complete loss of brakes. Downshifting won't help cause you only have one wheel in back. You will be trying to maintain control of your 3 wheeled car when the 4th wheel passes you after it has torn your rear quarter panel off your car and then bounces into the oncoming lane of traffic. Seriously, I would be concerned about whether the last person who had that hub apart followed procedure. Do a search here and read up.. you will find that quite a few of us have learned the hard way that the antique tapered hub design has had it's issues. I will recommend you call Phil Harris purchase the flanged axles and convert your rear end if you are going to take it apart anyway. You can't put a price on safety.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by r1lark View Post
          Ah, Bruce, hate to tell you but that is a tapered axle setup in your picture, not a flanged axle.
          Here is a pic from the '65/'66 shop manual showing a flanged axle at the top and a tapered axle just below. The flanged axle won't have that big nut. The nut holds the separate hub onto the tapered axle shaft; the flanged axle doesn't have a separate hub.
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]75923[/ATTACH]
          Sure, now I see what's going on-someone removed the brake drum from the hub ostensibly to make it easier for brake drum removal. This actually is OK, since I can now use my current brake drums. I'm switching to this 3:31 from a 3:07-now that I have 4 barrel and dual exhausts a little lower ratio will be fun!

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          • #6
            Were flanged axles an option and not standard in ‘64? I ask because I always thought they were standard, but when I was back in Wisconsin this summer working on my Dads ‘64 GT Hawk his axle set up is exactly like the photo BRUCESTUDE posted with this thread.

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            • #7
              Flanged axles were introduced in the middle of the 1965 model year. Not available in 64.
              Skip Lackie

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              • #8
                Keep in mind you may have to change the driveshaft also , I have a 60 lark in the shop now and the owner told me he had to change the driveshaft when he did that swap. Ed

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jts359 View Post
                  Keep in mind you may have to change the driveshaft also , I have a 60 lark in the shop now and the owner told me he had to change the driveshaft when he did that swap. Ed
                  Yes thanks. I searched this forum and found measurements, looks like a trip to the driveline shop .

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Skip Lackie View Post
                    Flanged axles were introduced in the middle of the 1965 model year. Not available in 64.
                    Actually, Skip: 1964 V8 models with Serial Numbers 64V1001 through 64V1005 were built June 23, 1963, to be shipped to Granatelli for the Bonneville performance runs and advertising work-up for the 1964 model year introduction. But first, their Production records specify "Ship to Engineering Dept. for Modification," and, "Omit all body and chassis undercoating."

                    In any case, those five 1964 model year cars all had Option #75: Flanged Axles.

                    My theory is that Studebaker knew the tapered axles were a weak point behind R-series engines but decided to go with tapered axles for production R-engined cars for reasons lost to history in bean-counter notes. Maybe those notes will surface some day when someone at the museum is looking for something else.

                    Another item that might be confirmed for essentially the same reason, in my [never-so-humble] opinion, is why the first couple 1963 Super Larks built as full package cars had 5" wide Avanti wheels...but virtually all Super Series package cars had regular old 4.5" wheels after all. BP
                    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                    Ayn Rand:
                    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                      My theory is that Studebaker knew the tapered axles were a weak point behind R-series engines but decided to go with tapered axles for production R-engined cars for reasons lost to history in bean-counter notes. Maybe those notes will surface some day when someone at the museum is looking for something else.
                      Look no further than here on the Forum:

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...berti-papers-5

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...berti-papers-8

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...berti-papers-9

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...erti-papers-10

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...erti-papers-11

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...erti-papers-16

                      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...-(June-3-1963)

                      Craig
                      Last edited by 8E45E; 09-25-2018, 04:15 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Excellent, Craig; thanks. I had forgotten about those papers. BP
                        We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                        Ayn Rand:
                        "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                        G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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                        • #13
                          Interesting reading. It all sound familiar to me.
                          james r pepper

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BRUCESTUDE View Post
                            Yes thanks. I searched this forum and found measurements, looks like a trip to the driveline shop .
                            The standard Dana 44 uses a 1310 series U joint, measuring 3.219" across the web (including caps) with 1.062 diameter caps and external clips. It's very common. I just had Tatton driveline service, in Murray UT, make me a new 4" longer, 3" diameter drive shaft for my Hawk. All new with u joints installed (no trans yoke) $195 delivered to my door. https://www.tattonsdrivelines.com/

                            The rear axle flange nut torque spec is 140 to 180Ft lbs. There's nothing wrong with the taper fit bolt on flange axles for a normal street car if they're properly torqued. Jeep used the Dana 44 with tapered axles until 1972.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              There's nothing wrong with the taper fit bolt on flange axles for a normal street car if they're properly torqued.
                              Agree, in theory. The vast majority of Dana 44 tapered axles lived their life without failure. In practice, one never knows to what previous abuses those tapered axles were subjected. Run hard and overloaded over rough roads? Drag raced? Run with bent wheels? After seventy years of use, it would be interesting to know what the original designers considered a normal street car service life span.

                              jack vines
                              PackardV8

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