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Dual carb options for flathead 170

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  • Fuel System: Dual carb options for flathead 170

    Does anyone have any experience with a dual carb intake on a flathead 170? I'm curious about what carbs have worked well and how the linkage was set up to operate both carbs smoothly and in sync. Two of the stock carbs would be the obvious choice, but are there any others that have worked well? I keep thinking about the progressive two-barrel Holley-Weber carb from the 1500-cc Pinto; two of them would be about the right throttle size for the 2800-cc Studebaker engine. Even having to use an adapter, the Pinto carb's two barrels are much smaller in area than the throttle size of the Studebaker's stock one barrel, so an adapter shouldn't cause any restriction. But the Pinto carbs may also be too bulky to fit two on the intakes that are available for the 170. I have access to both an Offenhauser and a Morgan intake, though the carb spacing is just about the same.

    Linkage is the other problem. With stock carbs, would it work to add a second stock linkage bracket that pushes the linkage rod across the top of the engine to the second carb? Anyone have any ideas or experience with this?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    I have never owned a Champion with dual carbs, although it is on my bucket list. Most of the ones I have seen used two Carter WE's, which are the stock Champion carb. I seem to remember that the dual-carb setup had a shaft running along the head, with short linkage rods to each carb, and that shaft was turned by the original centrally-located throttle linkage.

    If I were to mess with dual carbs on a Champion, a pair of Solex 32PICT carbs as used on 1600 cc air-cooled VW engines might work well, and brand new ones are being sold. Another idea? Three motorcycle carbs on long ram tubes.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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    • #3
      You have a few things confused in regard to the Pinto. First, the small engine used in the early production Pinto's was a 1600cc not 1500cc. Second, that 1600cc engine used a single one barrel carb.


      The carb you describe sounds like the Weber produced model 5200, which was used on the 2000cc and 2400cc over head cam engines. It's unlikely you will find a manifold to fit this carb to the Stude engine unless you make or modify one. It has an unusual 4 bolt base.



      If I were going to go to the trouble of making or modifyin a manifold I'd go for a couple Weber 44 IDF's.

      Although, when I put 3 carbs on my Ford 200ci six, I used Holley 1904, one barrel carbs.
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      • #4
        Gord, thanks for your input on the throttle linkage. What you're suggesting would work beautifully. I've already ordered the vintage arms I'll need to build it. I've got a finned aluminum high compression head for the engine to go with the dual carbs and I'm going to try to keep everything looking as vintage as possible, like it has been that way since the early 50s. Thanks.

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        • #5
          Rick, thanks for straightening me out on the Pinto carbs. I like the idea of the Holley 1904, but it doesn't appear to have a choke--is that correct? You're in the same area I am--how was your tri-power Ford six to get started in cold weather? And did the Ford seem at all over carbureted with the three 1904s?

          I picked up an adapter sold by Weber for a 4-bolt 2-barrel to a 2-bolt 1-barrel, but I haven't gotten hold of a 5200 to see whether it has the same 4-bolt pattern. Again though, I have a feeling the 5200s are a little too bulky to fit two of them on the Studebaker intake anyway.

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          • #6
            You should ask to Graham Gagne. He did a very nice setup on his Champion. His pseudo is kg.works. He posted about this not long ago.
            Nice Sunday to all.
            Here is the link:http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...e-flathead-six
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Adding a second OEM carbs and utilizing the existing linkage is as easy as it appears and adds big bling. Tuning them to make significantly more horsepower is not as easy as it appears; that requires increasing compression, tuning the jets and ignition advance curve and changing the exhaust system. Larger intake valves are the next need.

              Back to off topic. On the someday list is taking the two sidedraft SU carbs from the MG Midget/AH Sprite and adding a third; the Champion has three intake ports. The SU carbs are vacuum operated, so they won't overcarburet the Champion.

              I have two carbs and the intake on the shelf. It can be made to bolt to the Champion. Cut another in half and heliarc it to the two and trick city.



              jack vines
              PackardV8

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              • #8
                Jack - That brings back the thought/memory of balancing two SUs without balancing equipment. One car that I purchased had no oil in the SUs - it ran strange until I figured that out. They do look neat/unusual now.
                Gary L.
                Wappinger, NY

                SDC member since 1968
                Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dstude View Post
                  Rick, thanks for straightening me out on the Pinto carbs. I like the idea of the Holley 1904, but it doesn't appear to have a choke--is that correct? You're in the same area I am--how was your tri-power Ford six to get started in cold weather? And did the Ford seem at all over carbureted with the three 1904s?

                  I picked up an adapter sold by Weber for a 4-bolt 2-barrel to a 2-bolt 1-barrel, but I haven't gotten hold of a 5200 to see whether it has the same 4-bolt pattern. Again though, I have a feeling the 5200s are a little too bulky to fit two of them on the Studebaker intake anyway.
                  The 1904 Holley does have a choke, I never had any problem with starting. It isn't over carbureted, but the compression has been increased and it has been cammed for it, in fact everything Jack mentioned was done. I think you could get two 5200s on there but it won't look very 1950s. I think I've seen the adapter you speek of; if it's what I've seen it fits a standard Holley/Ford two barrel. The Weber 5200 pattern is different, but depending on how the adapter is made it may be able to be modified to work.

                  Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                  Adding a second OEM carbs and utilizing the existing linkage is as easy as it appears and adds big bling. Tuning them to make significantly more horsepower is not as easy as it appears; that requires increasing compression, tuning the jets and ignition advance curve and changing the exhaust system. Larger intake valves are the next need.

                  Back to off topic. On the someday list is taking the two sidedraft SU carbs from the MG Midget/AH Sprite and adding a third; the Champion has three intake ports. The SU carbs are vacuum operated, so they won't overcarburet the Champion.
                  jack vines
                  I love SU carbs! I've used them on several custom projects, very easy carbs to work with and little to go wrong with them. I still have a 1971 Honda 750 with one from a 65 MGB on it , and a '68 Harley with one from a '65 Peugeot on it. The second SU from the MGB went on a turbo charged VW that went to Austrailia.

                  A good choice but they don't offer the wow factor some other carbs might. They look too stock.
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                  • #10
                    Good guy to deal with.......

                    http://vintagespeed.com/
                    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                    Jeff


                    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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                    • #11
                      I was just looking at the Vintage Speed site Jeff, good to see you recommend him. Wouldn't running a 2 bbl into the original manifold be easier, and get as much of a result as the 2 one barrels? The 2 into 1 Y manifold adapter looked sharp though on Vintage Speed site.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LeoH View Post
                        I was just looking at the Vintage Speed site Jeff, good to see you recommend him. Wouldn't running a 2 bbl into the original manifold be easier, and get as much of a result as the 2 one barrels? The 2 into 1 Y manifold adapter looked sharp though on Vintage Speed site.
                        Short answer; easier yes, get as much result, no.

                        If one examines the Stude intake manifold, there is a large diverter directly under the carburetor base.

                        jack vines
                        PackardV8

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                        • #13
                          I believe the original diameter of the intake hole on the 200 is the same as the 170 (if the flathead and OHV have the same intake diameter). Clifford makes a weber 32/36 adapter for the 200, and thus should fit the 170. I have a 32/36 on my 66 200 in my Ranchero, runs great and good power. Ive always wanted to do the 3x1 Holley 1904s. I got 3 now and got 2 glass bowls, 1 more glass bowl to go!

                          Ive debated putting the 32/36 on my 61 Lark OHV 170 but i kinda just want to keep it stock. If you do this though, and only end up doing 1 weber/holley, post the jet sizes. Just in case someone else wants to do it. I did the same with the weber for the 200. Check YouTube for Weber conversion ford 200

                          Good luck
                          Ryan

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                          • #14
                            Thanks Jack.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by StarDiero75 View Post
                              Ive always wanted to do the 3x1 Holley 1904s. I got 3 now and got 2 glass bowls, 1 more glass bowl to go!

                              . Check YouTube for Weber conversion ford 200

                              Good luck
                              Ryan
                              Here you go Ryan. My '26 Ford, 200, 170 head milled, Clifford cam, exhaust port divider and rocker cover, Rhodes lifters, Offenhauser manifold, 3 Holley 1904's, custom headers, Mallory dual point.
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                              Keep an eye out at swap meets for the glass bowl, I see them all the time, in fact I haven't seen one with an aluminum bowl at one in decades. Problem is those carbs aren't $2 anymore so I no longer pick them up.
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