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1957 Silver Hawk 3 on the tree

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  • Transmission: 1957 Silver Hawk 3 on the tree

    I bought my 1957 Silver Hawk about a year ago and finally was able to bring it to a show yesterday - about 200 cars and only one Studebaker, mine. It drew a lot of attention.

    I thought I would give a little history and post one question, regarding the 3 on the tree.

    When I got the Hawk, it needed a total engine rebuild - 289 V8. . Had it torn down to the bare bones. The rebuild required a new crank, pan, and a few other things - not including the valves, pistons, rods, etc. Rebuild took several months, mostly chasing down parts. OK, now the engine is in and it runs great - oil pressure at 60-70.

    Next, I put front disk brakes on. No problem, until I put a few miles on them. I knew the instructions said to remove the pressure release valve from the master cylinder - but that looked like a real pain to remove the MC and do that work. So, I drove it to town (15 miles) to have new tires put on and get the front end line up. On the way to the car show from the tire shop, the front brakes locked up tight in traffic, and in the middle of an intersection!! And, to make matters worse, the roll pin that holds the shifting lever in place fell out - couldn't put it in any gear. I now know I should pay a little better attention to the instructions. So, I replace the MC with a new one, after removing the pressure release valve, put in the other valves required, and now they work great!!

    So, yesterday was actually the first time I drove it in a reasonable fashion. I say reasonable because of my 3 on the tree problem.

    When the car is sitting in the garage, I can shift through the gears with no problem. Once I actually drive it, not so good. I can shift from reverse to 1st with no problem at all. I cannot shift from 1st to second. If I pull over and am moving very slow, I can shift it into 2nd. And then going to 3rd is no problem at all. So I ended up driving to the car show by starting out in 2nd - don't like to, but at least I didn't hold up traffic!

    So, I put the car up on my rack and I see nothing wrong. I put the lever in neutral, and the transmission levers seemed to be where they belong. I removed the pins to the clevises on the shifting levers, and they line up just the way they should. Verified that the transmission was actually in neutral, and it was.

    So, I am stuck. What do I do now? Any help will be much appreciated.

  • #2
    When you checked the position with the clevises off, did you have the shifter locked in the neutral position? I adjusted my car's levers a short while after I got it and the difference was amazing.
    The first thing that came to my mind was that the mounts were bad and under load they were letting things move out of position, but I figured you put in new mounts when you reinstalled the engine.
    "In the heart of Arkansas."
    Searcy, Arkansas
    1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
    1952 2R pickup

    Comment


    • #3
      Obviously something is binding. You cannot just look at the shift linkage to determine if that's where the problem is. You need to disconnect the shift rods and adjust them as necessary. It's actually very simple. The best way is to climb under the car and disconnect the shift rods from the trans levers. There are two levers sticking out of the side of the trans to which the rods from the bottom of the steering column are connected. Remove the cotter pins and pull out the pins. Move the levers back and forth -- each has three positions, the middle of which is neutral. Put them both in neutral and have a helper hold the shift lever as close to the neutral position as possible. The rods should now match up exactly with the holes in the levers. If not, loosen the nut and shorten/lengthen each clevis until they do. Tighten the nut, insert the rod, and install a new cotter pin in each. It should now shift without jamming. As noted above, this condition is often caused by sagging motor mounts -- something that should be checked.
      Skip Lackie

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      • #4
        I did that adjustment. I didn't have help, so I just put the lever in neutral. Got under the car, disconnected the clevises from the transmission. Nothing moved - it looked like they were just where they belonged. When my son comes in tomorrow, I'll have him sitting in the drivers seat and holding the lever in neutral when I am under the car and check again. Thanks for the suggestion.

        Motor mounts are new with the new motor.

        Is there anything in the steering column that could cause this problem?

        Comment


        • #5
          I have tried doing it with someone holding the levers, but the best way is to pin it in place so you know both levers are exactly where they belong. There was a special tool that did this, but on cars like my 52 a hex wrench of the correct size works. I don't know if the same applies to a Hawk.
          BTW You might want to edit the title of your post to reference the problem. I almost skipped it because I thought it was just about Hawks having column shift. There are certainly members who can give you tips on aligning the shifter on that model.
          "In the heart of Arkansas."
          Searcy, Arkansas
          1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
          1952 2R pickup

          Comment


          • #6
            The Shop Manual instructions typically say, adjust the shift linkage so the clevis pin slides freely in the low/reverse and the 2nd/3rd lever, and THEN shorten the low/reverse shift rod a turn or a turn and a half. This keeps it from hanging up at the crossover point. Try it, shorten it another half turn if needed.

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            • #7
              When I was in high school I had a 54 Chevy that had the same problem. The steering column parts had enough play that if you didn't follow the exact H pattern, it would lock in gear, then I'd have to raise the hood and move the levers to neutral again.

              Do you shift by using the H pattern, or do you slide through using the X pattern?

              Comment


              • #8
                What Post #5 is trying to say is important. He is talking NOT about the Trans. Levers or the Shift Lever, but the 2 Arms or Levers on the Column UNDER THE HOOD.

                When the shift levers on the Trans. are in neutral, those 2 Levers should line up so closely that a Allan Wrench or small screwdriver will go into the holes in them used for this alignment adjustment.

                The other issue you may be having is, the Shift Tube in the Column may have the hole in it elongated and worn out so that your shift lever will not engage the Shift Tube properly causing the lost motion you are experiencing.

                I can tell that this Car has considerable wear on the shifting linkage system from a lot of Miles because when that Pin falls out it means the Bell shaped Housing under the steering wheel has a lot of wear and needs to be replaced.
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                Comment


                • #9
                  What Post #5 is trying to say is important. Howard is talking NOT about the Trans. Levers or the Shift Lever, but the 2 Arms or Levers on the Column UNDER THE HOOD.

                  When the shift levers on the Trans. are in neutral, those 2 Levers should line up so closely that a Allan Wrench or small screwdriver will go into the holes in them used for this alignment adjustment.

                  The other issue you may be having is, the Shift Tube in the Column may have the hole in it elongated and worn out so that your shift lever will not engage the Shift Tube properly causing the lost motion you are experiencing.

                  I can tell that this Car has considerable wear on the shifting linkage system from a lot of Miles because when that Pin falls out it means the Bell shaped Housing under the steering wheel has a lot of wear and needs to be replaced.

                  Meaning, everything from the trans. to the shift Knob should be checked for wear.
                  StudeRich
                  Second Generation Stude Driver,
                  Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK - thanks everyone for all the info.

                    The levers on the engine side firewall seem to be lined up perfectly. I don't see any holes in them that would be used to align!

                    I turned the clevises in 1 1/2 turn, and I am anxious to take it out for a drive to try it out - but it is a wee bit noisy (a good noise) and my wife probably wouldn't appreciate it while she is still sleeping!

                    All the linkages appear tight and not worn. I suspect that the problem is behind the steering wheel. It just seems like that when I am looking for 2nd. It goes into neutral just fine, just can't move lever down to get into 2nd.

                    So how much is involved with checking the steering column mechanism? Are replacement parts available for that particular problem?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just got back from my test drive, and no change. Looks like I pull the steering wheel!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As Rich said, it sounds like the upper column shift pivot is worn and should be replace or repaired, but for right now I'd concentrate on the shift arms at the base of the steering column. Get the slop out and the arms lined up there, then see how it shifts. I realize these cars are old and many times quite worn, so I always try to shift in the strict H pattern, and I never speed shift.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I just checked again, and those lower shift arms don't have any slop in them.
                          I pulled the shift lever and it looks OK.
                          With the shift lever out, I can rotate the lever support about 1/2" at the point the lever goes into the support. That seems like a lot of slop to me! I looked into a couple of the parts suppliers and can't seem to find a lever support. I haven't called them yet, but will shortly.
                          So, is that support fixable? I own a machine shop so we can fix most anything!
                          Any suggestion as to which supplier might have the lever support?

                          I am very deliberate with the H pattern - but that doesn't help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Have you checked the condition of the Shift Tube, the one that connects to the Shift Lever on the Column?

                            All of the Parts are out there, it just takes more networking with Members and Studebaker Vendors.
                            I don't think you could do any machining on that Zinc Cast Support that would save it.

                            The Shift Tube on the other hand, could be welded up and re-drilled.
                            StudeRich
                            Second Generation Stude Driver,
                            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have the shifting mechanism on the steering column all apart, and I think that the zinc lever support is the problem.

                              First of all, without the shifting lever in the casting, the roll pin falls right through - adds to the slop.

                              The small keyway in the casting measures .545" while the key part of the shifting tube measures .492" - again adds to the slop.

                              The slot in the lever support that the shifting lever fin rides in measures .172" wide while the fin that fits into that slot is only .107" - really adds to the slop.

                              I think all this slop is actually allowing the end of the shifting lever to come out of the hole in the long tube!

                              The long tube with the hole in it looks good. Hole is not elongated at all.

                              Anyone have any other explanation?

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