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1960 Stude Hawk Fuel Pump Installation

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  • Fuel System: 1960 Stude Hawk Fuel Pump Installation

    Having trouble getting both new & old fuel pump to engage cam shaft. Any suggestions? Both will pump fuel when not installed by pumping the lever by hand. When installed neither will pump fuel Am I doing something wrong on the installation?

  • #2
    What engine, and does it run, so you know the cam is turning?
    Pictures of the pump and arm might show if it's the correct part.

    Comment


    • #3
      Click image for larger version

Name:	Airtex 4227.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	55.6 KB
ID:	1721274 IF you have a V-8, this is the commonly available Airtex (and others) copy of the old AC Pump, that replaces the 2 below, note they all have a Long actuating lever that goes UNDER the Cam Lobe. This one is shown UPSIDE down.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	OEM Carter2.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	68.9 KB
ID:	1721272 259 & 289 V-8 Standard OEM Carter Fuel Pump, Lark type '59-'64 with tin filter bowl and Paper filter element.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	Carter Fuel Pump V-8.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	1721273 224, 259 & 289 OEM Carter Hawk V-8 Type & '55-'58 ALL, W/Glass filter bowl.

      The Cam Lobe is removable, if this engine never ran while you owned it, in it's present condition, it COULD be loose or missing or as Post #2 is saying, the Cam Gear could be stripped and not turning the Cam and also would not run without the Dist. turning.
      Last edited by StudeRich; 07-06-2018, 11:25 AM.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #4
        I am resurrecting this thread because I am having the exact same issue:

        Car ran fine until about 2 days ago when no fuel was getting to the carb. Running a 2 week old carter M2211 pump. I figured something must have been defective in the pump (happened to me once before) so I bought a new pump and installed. Same result.

        I can pump the lever by hand easily and get fuel - installed new needles and seats. Can fill the bowls via the stone filter port and get the car to run great for about 30 seconds.

        Still no fuel.

        Did the eccentric wear itself out in the 2 weeks since I installed the new carter pump?

        I'm out of ideas and will be cracking the timing case open in the morning to see whats up. These eccentrics are keyed I assume?

        Comment


        • #5
          These replacement pumps don't usually work. If a tiny bit of debris gets in one of the valves, the pump won't work. I like to install a filter on the gas tank side ot the pump. To install turn engine over so cam is situated so that the pump will set in the hole fairly flat without a lot of pressure on the actuating arm. Put two locating bolts--everyone needs these, they are simply grade 5 bolts with the heads cut off and a screwdriver slot cut into one end--- into the mounting bolt holes. Slip the gasket over the bolts and then the pump. I always put a glob of Lubriplate on the actuating arm. Next, put a nut on one locating stud and snug it up. With the pump thus held securely in place remove the other locating stud and replace the bolt. Then remove the other stud and replace the bolt and you are done! Phil: Can you easily pull gas up from the tank? use a 50 or 60 cc irrigating tip syringe; don't suck on fuel line (don't laugh, I've seen patients who have done this!) If gas comes up easily, are there tiny little flecks of rust and debris in it? If so, you may have debris lodged in a valve in the pump and unless these little valves seat securely, there will be no gas. I've been trying to add electric back up pumps to my cars since Ceci's 56's fuel pump gave out half way back from a show a few years ago. My son recommended a Bosch pump for a mid 80's carburated Honda. I wire them to the acc. circuit so they can't be left on and you can switch them on with the ign. switch in the acc. position to prime the carb and mechanical pump if the car has set thru an interminable MN winter. Always put the filter on the in side of the pump and don't use a vane type pump (they will not self prime) If you use acc circuit and switch the pump you won't be running with the pump on (uless the mech pump fails) so I don't use a crash interupter switch ( cause it is another thing to fail when you need it) Hope this helps you!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jeffry Cassel View Post
            These replacement pumps don't usually work. If a tiny bit of debris gets in one of the valves, the pump won't work. I like to install a filter on the gas tank side ot the pump. To install turn engine over so cam is situated so that the pump will set in the hole fairly flat without a lot of pressure on the actuating arm. Put two locating bolts--everyone needs these, they are simply grade 5 bolts with the heads cut off and a screwdriver slot cut into one end--- into the mounting bolt holes. Slip the gasket over the bolts and then the pump. I always put a glob of Lubriplate on the actuating arm. Next, put a nut on one locating stud and snug it up. With the pump thus held securely in place remove the other locating stud and replace the bolt. Then remove the other stud and replace the bolt and you are done! Phil: Can you easily pull gas up from the tank? use a 50 or 60 cc irrigating tip syringe; don't suck on fuel line (don't laugh, I've seen patients who have done this!) If gas comes up easily, are there tiny little flecks of rust and debris in it? If so, you may have debris lodged in a valve in the pump and unless these little valves seat securely, there will be no gas. I've been trying to add electric back up pumps to my cars since Ceci's 56's fuel pump gave out half way back from a show a few years ago. My son recommended a Bosch pump for a mid 80's carburated Honda. I wire them to the acc. circuit so they can't be left on and you can switch them on with the ign. switch in the acc. position to prime the carb and mechanical pump if the car has set thru an interminable MN winter. Always put the filter on the in side of the pump and don't use a vane type pump (they will not self prime) If you use acc circuit and switch the pump you won't be running with the pump on (uless the mech pump fails) so I don't use a crash interupter switch ( cause it is another thing to fail when you need it) Hope this helps you!
            Thanks for the tips!

            I haven't used a syringe but I can hand pump the fuel up easily. I'm beginning to think that the geometry between the pump and and the eccentric isn't correct, but what has me totally stumped is that this pump worked just fine - I drove the car multiple times.

            Just pulled the timing cover and the eccentric is also fine.

            Can anyone verify that they are using a Carter M2211 with an early 60's V8? Were there different timing covers and hence different fuel pump bosses?

            Thanks in advance.

            Comment


            • #7
              Alright I've figured it out. These Carter M2211 articulating arms are not correct, at least not for my setup. I found the original pump buried in a box, installed it and can now get fuel out of it.

              My guess is that the Carter pump I installed that was working was only working because it was brand new. Maybe once the diaphragms broke in it wasn't being articulated enough or the arm wasn't being allowed to come up enough to expel the fuel.

              Anyway if anyone comes across this problem in the future that's what my problem was.

              -Philip

              Comment


              • #8
                The thing is with these "Carter" replacement Fuel Pumps, they are just that: "Carter Replacements", NOT actually Carter Design and I doubt Mfg. either. Just the old 1950's AC Design copied and probably made by Airtex and Boxed as "Carter".
                It's a travesty to call them by Carter's formally Good name (before the Federal Mogal buyout).

                I do have to say that they did finally fix the huge Oil leakage problem at the Actuating Lever PIN.
                Your's could be older stock if there is no "Head" on that Pin.

                The Good ones ARE Carter Design, those are the Carter "Super Pumps" as used on Chrysler Products and R1 & R2 Avantis.
                These DO have to be "Studebaker Vendor modified" differently for both R1 & R2 Jet Thrust and Avanti Engines and will work on all '55 to '64 Stude. V8's with mods to the Engine mount Brackets only required on C and K Models.

                Did you look at the Pics in Post #3 and compare to both pumps you have?
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                Comment

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