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Hawk GT 1962 brake issues

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  • Brakes: Hawk GT 1962 brake issues

    Hi y'all! Just bought a beautiful 1962 Hawk GT and there are some brake issues with it. It pulls on one side, brakes are slow and brakes are binding a bit at the rear, passenger side. Car comes from Ontario and drove it all the way back to Montreal, a 300 miles ride. Now the car as to go through a mechanical inspection , since it's an out of province car, to be allowed on the road. I know it won't pass said inspection with these brake issues. So I will remove wheels and drums to check what is going on. I am thinking of changing all the parts I can. I have a few questions to ask Studebaker owners that are in the know:

    1) It seems I need a puller to remove drums. Do I need that puller for front and rear brake drums?

    2) I have read somewhere that some wheel studs are left threaded on Studebaker cars. Is that the case with my 1962 GT? I do not know if this is of any importance but this is a Canadian built car with a V8 289 CID.

    3) Front brake overhaul, both sides : Are these the right parts?

    Wheel cylinder : # 535585 ( 2 units)
    Return spring : #535160 ( 4 units)
    Adjusting screw spring: # 535167 ( 2 units)
    Pin: # 535168 ( 4 units)
    Retaining clip : #535159

    3a) Font drums. I have looked left and right to find drums for that car and specific year and came empty handed. Anybody knows if these drums can be sourced? What are my options beside doing a costly disc brake conversion? It seems the front drums are 11 inches and bolt pattern is 4.5 X 5. Can a drum from another car be used directly without any modification or machining? Can one be used with machining?

    b) What are the exact specs of these front drums?

    c) Could not find front brake shoes. Short of having them relined, anyone knows of a company which sells such shoes?

    4) Rear brake overhaul, both sides. Are these the right parts?


    Wheel cylinder: # 535586 ( 2 units)
    Return spring: # 535160 ( 4 units)
    Adjusting screw spring: # 535167 ( 2 units)
    Pin: # 535158 ( 4 units)
    Clip : # 535159 ( 4 units)

    4a) Rear drums : it seems they are 10 inches drums. Are there new ones available? I am confused about finned ones and non finned ones. What should I use??

    4b) Rear brake shoes? Any suggestions about what I can use?


    5) Any pitfalls to avoid when working on Studebaker brakes?

  • #2
    you need a hub puller for backs only.
    you need one of the many Stude vendors to get all the stuuf you need for the job.
    1962 cars "should not" have left hand threads, but look to see a stamped "L" on the studs before turning.
    I'd advise replacing flexible hoses (3), and think seriously about replacing "all" steel lines unless otherwise noted to be newer...
    If you need front drums, they are out there used (I have 2), tho you can get re-popped from our big SI vendor.
    ..Hawks and power Larks came finned for better cooling, not sure if your driving habits require them.

    Others will now chime in....GL

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the Forum, Christian.
      You'll certainly get more detailed answers from others but here's what I can tell you:
      You'll need a puller, but only for the rear brakes. If you remove the rear drums, take the time to remove the rear axles too, so you can grease the rear bearings.
      If your car is original, all the wheel studs are right threaded.
      You can get the parts you need from Stephen Allen,http://mystudebaker.com/brakes/stude...justing-parts/, but there are many other vendors.
      You need the shop manual and the parts manual. Nevertheless, you can check your parts numbers here:http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/...hp309x331.html
      If you have to turn you brake drums, don't forget that they will need thicker linings to compensate for this. So, measure your drums first, and only order the linings after.
      Don't forget that special grease (like the red Castrol one) has to be used with all hydraulic components and that all mechanical friction points in the system (except linings, of course!) takes high temp grease.
      I wish you lots of pleasure with your Hawk.
      Last edited by christophe; 05-30-2018, 08:07 AM.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        Don't forget that this would be the perfect time to replace the original Master Cylinder with an upgrade to a dual master cylinder. Also replace all 3 rubber flex lines, 2 on the front and 1 on the rear. At least flush the metal lines or better yet, replace with new. 55 years of corrosion and build up of sludge in those metal lines can cause a failure when everything else is new and performing like new. Brakes are a hydraulic pressure system and will seek the weakest point to fail.
        Might make sense to upgrade to front disc brakes too if this is going to be driven often. "Turner Brakes" will steer you to all the correct parts to make your car stop like a new car. Other vendors have systems too.
        As for getting the original parts, contact any of the Studebaker vendors for the correct parts.
        You only need the drum puller for the rear drums, but make sure you use the correct type or you could damage a drum. Your car should not have any backwards threaded lug studs to worry about.
        Unless drums are damaged or already over sized, they can usually be turned by any competent machine shop and reused. If they need to be replaced, use the same type that you remove.
        sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
        1950 Champion Convertible
        1950 Champion 4Dr
        1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
        1957 Thunderbird

        Comment


        • #5
          All the internal brake parts (including the master cylinder and hoses) may be purchased from Studebaker-International as a complete kit for about US$500.00. New finned drums are extra at about $200 each for the fronts and $160 each for the rears. I just had my '62 GT brakes completely rebuilt with their parts. See their catalog on-line at pages 260-261. IMO, be careful you insist on what I call non-semi-metallic shoes (I had some sent to me with tiny copper particles imbedded in the shoe material.) The semi-metallics squeal. They look like this.

          I don't know why because I've only had the car for 2-½ years, but my mechanic told me that the rear drums came off without having to pull the axles.

          Click image for larger version

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          Last edited by 56GH; 05-30-2018, 08:12 AM. Reason: misspelling
          Bill L.
          1962 GT Hawk

          Comment


          • #6
            Pulling the rear drums has nothing to do with pulling the axles. Drums and hub get pulled off of the axel as an assembly. Then the axle can be pulled if desired. DO NOT try to pull the drum, hub and axle as one piece or you will cause severe damage to multiple parts. Get the service manual and have your mechanic follow the sequences to remove and replace.
            Originally posted by 56GH View Post
            All the internal brake parts (including the master cylinder and hoses) may be purchased from Studebaker-International as a complete kit for about US$500.00. New finned drums are extra at about $200 each for the fronts and $160 each for the rears. I just had my '62 GT brakes completely rebuilt with their parts. See their catalog on-line at pages 260-261. IMO, be careful you insist on what I call non-semi-metallic shoes (I had some sent to me with tiny copper particles imbedded in the shoe material.) The semi-metallics squeal. They look like this.

            I don't know why because I've only had the car for 2-½ years, but my mechanic told me that the rear drums came off without having to pull the axles.

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]72851[/ATTACH]
            sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
            1950 Champion Convertible
            1950 Champion 4Dr
            1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
            1957 Thunderbird

            Comment


            • #7
              I purchased all of my brake items such as master cylinder and wheel cylinders and all new brake lines from Amazon for my '62 GT. Saved a ton of money and the items have worked great for me.
              Jim Kaufman
              Kearney NE

              1952 2R10
              1953 Champion (sold it and still kicking myself)
              1962 GT Hawk
              1963 R3984 Avanti R1

              Comment


              • #8
                Usually, when brakes pull to one side or the other it is due to a brake shoe contaminated with wheel bearing grease or brake fluid. They need to be replaced along with the bad brake cylinder or seal. You might just adjust the brakes; if there is a big discrepancy from one side to the other, the car will pull to one side when the brakes are applied. If I am not familiar with a brake, I will remove the drums and do one side at a time so that I have a reference . Remember Primary shoe in front, Secondary shoe in the back! Use fully synthetic fluid: avoid cheap stuff and sillycone

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jim Kaufman; My wife is thinking about selling her 53 Champion. She has a Sky Hawk she really likes so doesn't drive the Champion.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You should buy the shop manual and the chassis parts catalog. They are available from all the Studebaker vendors. The parts catalog lists every part, gives the part number and the "official" name of the part.

                    The finned drums are designed to dissipate more heat before the brakes fade. You should not have a finned drum on one side and a non-finned drum on the other side. The finned and non-finned drums are interchangeable with the aforementioned caveat.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I recommend you first disassemble, and inspect all components for serviceability. You may find the drums are still OK, or just need turning. If you need front drums, they are very common nowadays, left overs from folks who converted to front discs. Serviceable rear drums, with hubs attached may be harder to find. Alternately, you could buy new rear drums, and take the new and old ones to a machine shop, to have the hubs swapped over, but that can be expensive. New rear drums, and most everything else is available from our Studebaker vendors. You can machine late 1960s-early 1970s Ford Mustang drums to fit. (I recently did that.) But if you add in the cost of machining, it is easier and as cheap to just buy the right drums from a Stude vendor.

                      Generally, you will not need new springs, clips, retainers, etc., as those parts do not wear out. If the shoes are dry, riveted on (not glued on), and serviceable, they may be better at stopping the car than anything you can buy nowadays. This is due to the older materials being no longer available.

                      Good luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree with Roy that you should buy the shop manual. You gave all the parts numbers, so I assume you own the parts book for your year, or should own it.
                        I agree that you need to take it apart to see exactly what is needed. I just did my 1950 that I brought home a few weeks ago, and it also pulled to the left, so I knew the right front was stuck and it needed brake work. I honed all 4 wheel cylinders and the master cylinder and had to replace one spring, 2 clips, and a rear brake flex hose. My shoes and drums were good as new.

                        Take pictures as soon as the drum is removed. This will help if you forget how something went together. I always give the complete system a flush and use DOT5 silicone brake fluid, as it doesn't absorb moisture like the old DOT3.

                        The local brake shop didn't have the exact rear flex hose for my car, but they did have one an inch longer, and that worked fine.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mot
                          Originally posted by thunderations View Post
                          Pulling the rear drums has nothing to do with pulling the axles. Drums and hub get pulled off of the axel as an assembly. Then the axle can be pulled if desired. DO NOT try to pull the drum, hub and axle as one piece or you will cause severe damage to multiple parts. Get the service manual and have your mechanic follow the sequences to remove and replace.
                          Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. The point I was trying to make in my post is that the rear drums came off without having to remove anything with a puller. The drums and hubs were not together as an assembly, the drums themselves came off, and the hubs didn't have to be pulled from the axle ends. Don't know why. Just repeating what the mechanic told me when I told him he'd need a puller and he told me he didn't need one after the job was done. Mmmmmm?
                          Last edited by 56GH; 05-30-2018, 04:04 PM. Reason: More info
                          Bill L.
                          1962 GT Hawk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            With the axles pulled I recommend replacing the rear seals as well. Not an expensive item to purchase. Chet445

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Someone in the past has replaced the drums and not had them properly attached onto the hubs. They are simply using the wheel lugs to locate the drum and the wheel to secure it. It's not what Studebaker design was, but a lot of people have done this. There is a chance that the drums are not properly centered. It seems like you're OK with the brakes, so it must be pretty close to perfect. It does make brake jobs and checking brakes a lot easier.

                              Originally posted by 56GH View Post
                              Mot

                              Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. The point I was trying to make in my post is that the rear drums came off without having to remove anything with a puller. The drums and hubs were not together as an assembly, the drums themselves came off, and the hubs didn't have to be pulled from the axle ends. Don't know why. Just repeating what the mechanic told me when I told him he'd need a puller and he told me he didn't need one after the job was done. Mmmmmm?
                              sigpic1966 Daytona (The First One)
                              1950 Champion Convertible
                              1950 Champion 4Dr
                              1955 President 2 Dr Hardtop
                              1957 Thunderbird

                              Comment

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