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Four barrel carb change...

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  • Four barrel carb change...

    I have a four bbl on one of my '63 wagons. I would like to exchange the old AFB for a Holley. I've read a few people discussing the Edelbrock (forgive misspelling) clone. What's the advantage over say, the Holley. I like Holleys, but if the Edelbrock is better... well, I can be persuaded. Cost is a big factor in this. I'm just trying to get one of these Studeclunkers back into a Studebaker.

    I hate the Strombergs and the Carter carbs are barely one notch above them. After six years dealing with leaking and unreliable rebuilds, the struggle with old worn out carbs has gotten a wee bit old. The best new carbs I've had experiance with are the Holleys.

    Any suggestions?

    Lotsa Larks!
    K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
    Ron Smith
    Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
    K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
    Ron Smith
    Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

  • #2
    The Edelbrock AFB is almost an exact copy of the Carter AFB, even down
    to a square boss on the back where the mold USED to say "Carter". It
    has a few slight changes, mostly in the metering rods. The top hole
    on the Edelbrock uses the later style Carter, which is larger then a
    Studebaker (or other) 60's Carter. My experience with Holley has not
    been good, ending with a poorly running car, that is hard to start and
    leaks gas all over the intake manifold. From the experts I spoke to,
    it seems it was a power valve issue, and I needed some special gaskets.
    A change to a salvage yard AFB solved all those problems. They are a
    bolt on carb, needing no adjustment to RUN well. To run RIGHT, they
    need some rejeting, though its a simple job with the metering rods.

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/carb_tuning/

    Supposedly, a correctly working Holley will make more power then an
    Edelbrock, but the Edelbrock will allow you slam the hood and forget
    about it - I prefer that option.

    Tom

    '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

    Comment


    • #3
      quote:Originally posted by sbca96
      My experience with Holley has not
      been good, ending with a poorly running car
      My experience is the opposite. 30,000 trouble free miles with the Holley 600 vacuum secondary carb on my '54...out of the box. Not much luck with the stock AFB on my '63 R1 Hawk. Never did run right even after rebuild.

      I also like the easy jet change on the Holley and the sight gauge to set the float level.

      My guess is that you would be happy with either a new Holley OR a new Edelbrock if it is jetted correctly and the proper CFM for the engine you are installing it on.



      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

      Comment


      • #4
        I've been running an Edelbrock for about twelve years and the only thing I've done to it is adjust idle mixture and idle speed. I beleive the Edelbrock is best for all around street driving and are pretty much trouble free. The Holley is better for performance but might be a little more tampermental. All said either one would probably serve you better than the old 50's and 60's carbs. Thats just my opinion for what its worth?

        GARY H 2DR.SEDAN 48 STUDEBAKER CHAMPION NORTHEAST MD.

        Comment


        • #5
          I did find a decent improvement over the salvage yard AFB when I went
          to the Edelbrock AFB. The reason for this (and probably why your '63
          didnt 'take' to the rebuild) is the throttle shafts wear and start to
          leak, which gives the same idle/running problems as a bad carb base
          gasket. I had a slight hestitation, which I thought was slop in the
          rear end, since it would take a split second for the car to respond
          when I gave it gas. Turned out to be the carb. The Edelbrock fixed
          that problem entirely. They wear out just like anything else. I dont
          like the fuel bowl design on the Holleys, and it was the leaking gas
          that I disliked more then the starting/idling issues. But, then again
          this was a used Holley .. so perhaps the bowls/cases warp with age?

          Tom
          '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
          Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
          http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
          I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

          Comment


          • #6
            There's nothing wrong with either brand. They have a little different tuning methods, beside that...not much different.

            As some have said, warped bases or warn throttle shaft bores will give most people fits...not realizing they have a warn out carburetor. "Oh, those "xxxxx" carburetors are junk because...on and on. When in fact, it's just warn out! That's a good thing with the Holley, the base can easily be replaced!

            As for the carb size.....you'll get many different [u]"opinions"</u>....but the fact is a stock or mildly modified (unblown!) engine will work the best..."overall"...with a 500cfm carb. period.
            With the correct tuneup (that is, properly jetted), a 289, by the numbers will work just fine with a 475cfm carb.!
            there were a few 500cfm Holleys made...but finding one may be futile search.
            The larger the carburetor, the softer the low speed will be. It's just a fact of thermo dynamics (physics).
            Now if you have the cam, headwork, exhaust, gear ratio, etc., etc., the 600 or even bigger will also work. You have to have homogeneous (compatable) package of parts.

            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              Ok... thanks. I had to ask.(LOL)

              I like Tom's option; 'slam the hood and forget about it'. EXACTLY what I'm looking for.

              I agree entirely with you Mike. That's the problem with just about every Carter and Stromberg that I've come across. They're just plain worn out! Maybe back in 1962 to '64 they weren't bad. Now they're a pain in the... um, well, rear.

              Performance isn't what I'm looking for. Unless one is referring to reliability. Speed, power, all that are for the kids. Just give me the power and reliability that the Studebaker 8s are known for. I'm just looking to put together a Stude that I can turn the key and drive to work without worrying.

              I haven't even laid eyes on the 4bbl in my other wagon. Haven't even laid eyes on the car, for that matter! It came as a parts car for my Daytona wagon and I'm going to get it early next week. The carb will come off and get dumped into the parts bin. Probably to be dumped, period.

              Thank you all for the input. I'll probably go with the Ed-clone. All I have to do is come up with the money...[:I]

              By the by, does anyone know what the current price on a Edelbrock AFB?

              Lotsa Larks!
              K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
              Ron Smith
              Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
              K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
              Ron Smith
              Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

              Comment


              • #8
                $225 from SummitRacing.com for a 500 cfm.

                http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

                You can check the price at your local Pepboys also, thats where I got
                my 600 cfm Edelbrock. I am pretty sure that Studebaker used a 600 or
                650 cfm on the factory cars. At least thats what I had read in the
                past. We have had this very same discussion on Racing Studebakers. I
                put a 650 CFM Carter from a big Buick on a 259 and the car ran fine.
                Dont know if it ran the best it could, but it still ran good. The 500
                is now the cheaper carb anyway, and you wont have to worry about it
                being too big. Back when I bought my Edelbrock, the 600 was cheaper
                then the 500. I was also putting it on a 289, with extensive head
                work done, and an R3 cam.

                Tom
                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ron,
                  For the trouble-free operation you're after, I would opt for the electric choke...sure is easier than that manual choke cable. Just a few xtra bucks...but it's worth it. Hope this helps.
                  Dan Miller

                  [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
                  Road Racers turn left AND right.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Greetings, All,

                    Please, everyone throwing away the junk Carter AFB and WCFB off your Studes, throw 'em my way. I am doing some restorations and am in need of cores to rebuild for them. E-mail me off list with what you have to donate. I'll pay shipping and something for your trouble.

                    thnx, jv.

                    PackardV8
                    PackardV8

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Packard, be careful what you ask for... I've got a lot of them.

                      Lotsa Larks!
                      K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                      Ron Smith
                      Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
                      K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                      Ron Smith
                      Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Auto lore aside, the market decides what's good and what's bad. I've heard Holley carbs are trouble. Yet if this is really true, how is it that they're still being built and sold???
                        Drill bits made of plastic could be marketed with all sorts of pluses![:0] You know, lighter weight, cheaper to manufacture, won't rust, etc., etc., etc.. BUT - if the damned things won't cut the metal, how long do you think they'll last in the marketplace???[}]
                        Holley's been around for ages. It takes a decent product to survive.

                        I've got a really tired WW on the Transtar. Thing is, the stupid carb doesn't know it's supposed to cause trouble. Things that don't cause me trouble tend to not get changed.[^]

                        Miscreant adrift in
                        the BerStuda Triangle!!

                        1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                        1960 Larkvertible V8
                        1958 Provincial wagon
                        1953 Commander coupe
                        No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ok, Biggsey. If you say so, I'll try it. But it gets yanked if it doesn't behave!

                          Lotsa Larks!
                          K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                          Ron Smith
                          Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
                          K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
                          Ron Smith
                          Where the heck is Fawn Lodge, CA?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you look in any car magazine in their Carb Tech area, you will see
                            about 2 pages of Holley tips for fixing/tweeking, & about one paragraph
                            for the AFB (Carter/Edelbrock). Just FYI.

                            Tom
                            '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                            Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                            I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              quote:Originally posted by sbca96

                              If you look in any car magazine in their Carb Tech area, you will see
                              about 2 pages of Holley tips for fixing/tweeking, & about one paragraph
                              for the AFB (Carter/Edelbrock). Just FYI.
                              I'm not sure what you are saying here. First of all, are there really some car magizines out there with a "Carb Tech" area? I subscribe to several, and rarely do any have articles on carbs these days...let alone an on going tech area. When they do have an article, you are correct...more deal with the Holley carb than any other.

                              If you are saying this is because the Holley is the most popular aftermarket 4 bbl carb out there, can be tuned in more ways to the specific engine and application, is the easiest to tune, and has the largest installed population, then I would agree.

                              If you are saying this is because they are one of the worst carbs out there and always are needing "fixing/tweaking", then you might look for another argument. Magazines rarely feature the worst of things...especially over several decades.

                              I think the AFB has also stood the test of time and is a fine carb. The fact that far more Holley's have been sold than AFB and AFB clones tells me a lot, however. The market generally sorts through the choices available and the "best" become the top sellers.

                              This is not to discourage anyone from using an AFB or AFB clone. Studebaker used the AFB in the last couple of years on their V8's and (if for no other reason) it's nice to stick with that heritage.


                              Dick Steinkamp
                              Bellingham, WA

                              Comment

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