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Lowest part around the kingpin

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  • #16
    OK lets say the Goal is: "Better Road Handling" as NOX says.

    Wouldn't it be better to forget the "A" Arm angles etc. and focus on how to get more Positive Caster?
    That is what people say/said including; Vince and Andy Granetelli at Bonneville about the 2 or more Negative Degrees of Caster on a Stude. So they Made a few expensive High Speed suspension Parts for a couple of Record setting Bonneville Race Cars on the "Corporate Dime".

    It makes for good "Turnability" (Easier) but if taken well above 100 MPH the "Wandering does begin to be a problem.
    On the Street at 70 or less, there IS no problem.

    So it's important to know the "Where" and "Why" a change is needed for your application.
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten View Post
      Spring, Nox -

      Sorry...geometry just doesn't work like that..! You aren't seeing the whole picture.
      The upper and lower control arm must ""NOT"" be parallel. Altering that lower knuckle does nothing to enhance the handling.

      You want to see it first's VERY SIMPLE... Build yourself a cardboard model, use push pins as the pivots...see for your self..! Cheap and easy to prove the action.
      You need to do some modeling, geometry, "homework" to see that just lowering a car does nothing...but lower the car. Does it change the angle of the upper arm...yes...BUT it also changes the angle of the lower..!!

      How do explain that it does not change the geometry of the suspension? If you raise the lower attaching point of the kingpin does it not raise the UPPER mounting point the EXACT same amount? Wouldn't that also be the same effect as tunneling the inner upper attaching point???? It has to be the same. why would it not? The position of the lower control arm remains exactly the same point (and so do the pivot points) whether the rest of the system is moved or not. Explain so stupid me even gets it.
      Last edited by bezhawk; 12-28-2017, 05:27 PM.
      Bez Auto Alchemy

      "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln


      • #18
        Mike, I'm not after to lower the car, that could be done in many other ways, I'm after the angle called camber when the car is leaning in corners.

        I'm happy I started this, it's been on my mind for years...
        & I agree with Bez, I'm pretty stupid too...

        Champion V8
        4d sedan


        • #19
          Flipping/switching 1204-64 (if successful) would not change the frame / spring / shock geometry but it would add some more castor (dropping the front end adds more frame rake) and negative camber ... because the stock upper A arm is sloped down on a fixed arc, BUT after flipping would contact that fixed arc at a higher point (closer to parallel) which would increase the negative camber at rest and under load (body roll and/or suspension travel). The angle of both A arms will be affected but they will probably not be parallel (varies with front end load).
          This flip/switch would help me because my light front end Avanti needs more rake, and (because I have wider rims) I currently have a rim to upper A arm rubbing at full lock ... and a lower center of gravity couldn't hurt body roll. So ... why don't one of you real mechanics (not me) try this and see if radial tire handling improves (and you share your brand new alignment specs!) by getting more (of the previously elusive) positive castor and negative camber !!!! Seems like a cheap fix.


          • #20
            I don't think the proposed R3 suspension lowered the car as the suspension system incorporated new front sprigs to bring the ride height back to standard.


            • #21
              As for anyone interested...
              I reckon (yep: I COULD be wrong! ) that all one needs is some small iron blocks & if we don't have millingmashine one could go to a school were mecanic skills are teached & ask them if it would be interesting to be part of a "historical racing project"...
              & in the end when/if the lower knucle is fabricated it MIGHT(!) even be possible to try building a longer kingpin.
              & if we don't try we don't fail (or suxeed) & that means we still don't know...
              & in the night, just before falling asleep we will lay awake thinking...
              Last edited by Noxnabaker; 05-22-2019, 05:44 AM.

              Champion V8
              4d sedan