Steering: lowered 1959 hawk with power steering darts all over the place. HELP !

[A Gledhill]

Hi everyone- What I have here is a 1959 silver hawk with 289ci , factory power steering ,with the big boat anchor steering box. The car has only 39000 actual miles on it. We lowered the car quite a bit and have 60 series radials on it. We also put the quick steering arms on (Avanti). What the car is doing is darting all over the place, My dad says he can only drive it at about 30mph. The front end has been aligned and is all brand new. What is going on here. Thanks P.S. you can see the car in my profile section.

[PackardV8]

What the car is doing is darting all over the place, The front end has been aligned and is all brand new. What is going on here.

What's going on is insufficient caster. Then, your changes; low profile radial tires, lowering the suspension and quick steering arms exacerbated the inherent Stude front suspension problem. It was designed for easy steering without PS and with bias ply tire and for low speeds.

What caster setting did the alignment shop give you? Chances are, it's in the negative range.

A suggestion is to change to the later kingpins which have more caster built in and then use wedges if necessary to get the caster into the +1 range.

jack vines

[A Gledhill]

Thanks Jack for the info, I was always aware of the caster issue but was not sure what to do. What kingpins do you suggest

[Jeffry Cassel]

Wrong tires, scewed up geometry, wrong arms. PS doesn't know what to do! Did you put the hoses on correctly It is amazing an alignment shop would even look at a Studebaker; chances are they parked it a day and called you up and said that'll be $150 please!

[Noxnabaker]

To me it sure seems like to much toe-out, maby it's set up from original specs but now with all changes the toe-in might be needed to be more...?
Every time I drove a car darting sideways it's been to less toe-in.
But this might ofcourse be different, just saying...

[Mike Van Veghten]

Depends on a "lot of things" we outsiders can't see..!
On an outside guess, I agree with Noxna...insufficient toe-in.

Mike

[PackardV8]

On an outside guess, I agree with Noxna...insufficient toe-in. Mike

Could certainly be that, but the reason I didn't suggest toe is that's the one thing an alignment shop should be able to get right on any vehicle. They may not know how to set the caster and camber on a Stude, but toe is the same on anything. BTW, always take the Shop Manual along to the alignment shop and read with the alignment guy how to.

jack vines

[bezhawk]

Toe in with radials should be less than with bias ply tires. I usually cut the requirement in 1/2. If it calls for 1/8" use 1/16" toe in. The sensitivity of the power steering control valve is adjustable. Take the end cover off that has the two slotted head screws. Under that cap you will find a nut on the end of the spring assembly. Tighten it all the way tight, and back it off ONE flat of the nut, or 1/6 of a turn. MAKE SURE the spring stop spacer is in place under the nylon spring shoulder stop . If it is missing, that could be your whole problem.
Test drive the car. If it is good, then you are done. Other wise back off the nut another 1/6 of a turn. Do not go more than 3/4 of a turn from full tight.

[sals54]

To me it sure seems like to much toe-out, maby it's set up from original specs but now with all changes the toe-in might be needed to be more...?
Every time I drove a car darting sideways it's been to less toe-in.
But this might ofcourse be different, just saying...

I would look here first as well. Its an easy enough check. And this is a classic side effect. The PS is just exacerbating the problem. You can use the string method. At 10' from the front of the car, you should have about 1" of toe-in. That will put you in the ballpark, then have a shop fine tune it.
My car has about as much cut off the front springs as insanity would allow. It bottoms out on occasion, but its as close to "the look" as I can get it. It shoots straight as an arrow, without PS. Maybe try a new shop.

[53commander]

I can add a few guesses but I would really like to see the alignment specs. The problem with alignments is that although it may show to be within specs one side could be at the max and the other at minimum and still show "green" on the screen. It may seem ok since it's technically in specs but you don't want one wheel fighting the other to go straight. I do agree with the caster issue, it's not considered to be a tire wear factor but it can really affect the handling.

[gordr]

Another cause of "darting", which I have not seen mentioned is a binding condition in one or both kingpins, or in the center pivot. Power steering will mask the tightness, as felt in the steering wheel, but too much tightness will kill the self-centering effect of the caster. Lube shops routinely miss the fitting for the center pivot, and many do not pump enough grease into the king pins for the king pin thrust bearings to get properly lubed.

[bensherb]

Could certainly be that, but the reason I didn't suggest toe is that's the one thing an alignment shop should be able to get right on any vehicle. They may not know how to set the caster and camber on a Stude, but toe is the same on anything.
jack vines

You would think so! Don't take it ,or anything else, to the Goodyear shop in Tracy,Ca. They couldn't get it right on my 2001 Tundra even after 2 tries, with their computer BS. I later fixed it myself with a tape measure.

[sals54]

Another cause of "darting", which I have not seen mentioned is a binding condition in one or both kingpins, or in the center pivot. Power steering will mask the tightness, as felt in the steering wheel, but too much tightness will kill the self-centering effect of the caster. Lube shops routinely miss the fitting for the center pivot, and many do not pump enough grease into the king pins for the king pin thrust bearings to get properly lubed.

Gords got a good point here as well. How is the grease in the kingpins? I do mine on a hot day after driving. Then apply the grease gun till you see grease coming out of the top most part of the kingpin. It'll makea heck of a mess through all the other gaps, but you have to be sure to get that grease all the way to the top. It'll change the way you think about Stude steering.

[Steve Winzar]

I bought a '65 Mustang convertible many many years ago (damn, I wish I still had it ) and wondered why it was so twitchy to steer- you couldn't keep it straight and was exhausting to control. I looked at the front end one day and measured the toe-in. It was two inches pigeon toed, I swear!
Correcting this to about 3/16" made it a totally different drive.
How's your Toe-in?
Steve

[doofus]

Check the pitman arm pinch bolt,also the steering bellcrank bolt, they gotta be some kinda tight. Luck Doofus