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63 Lark Denso Honda Alternator Swap Problem

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  • Electrical: 63 Lark Denso Honda Alternator Swap Problem

    Hi
    I decided to swap out the alternator due to the crazy sporadic swings on my alt gauge. It would be cool to swap in a rebuilt factory unit but I decided to push the cheap and easy button and go with the Honda Civic swap I read about, another reason for the swap is this is my wife's daily driver and I thought it can be done in an hour or so.

    1. So I removed the old unit and installed the new unit. The F terminal was simple enough, I used the white wire with black stripe, however I was a little confused about the B terminal. The B terminal is the Batt terminal? Shouldn't the white with red stripe power wire connect here? I reluctantly applied the power wire to the B terminal knowing that the terminal above it was larger and looked like a power terminal. I also connected the ground to the terminal without an insulator that looked like a good ground, its next to the F terminal. So with a quick turn of the key the engine did not start and the positive battery terminal sparked...It was obvious I did something wrong.

    2. I then reconnected the white red stripe power wire to the large terminal above the B terminal and relocated the ground wire to a case bolt. With a turn of the key...no start and a spark at the positive battery terminal again...ok I screwed up again, let me check the external voltage regulator to see if I fried it. I popped the cap off, it looked clean, that's all I could tell.

    So what am I doing wrong here?
    Attached Files
    Cheers,
    JOE

    --------------------------------------------------

    "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
    Clark Olmstead

  • #2
    Did you follow this
    http://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech/.../hondaalt.html
    64 GT Hawk (K7)
    1970 Avanti (R3)

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes I did and read it many times. Reference my notes and photos. I'm hoping someone will point out what I'm doing wrong.
      Last edited by Joe V; 10-15-2017, 02:06 PM.
      Cheers,
      JOE

      --------------------------------------------------

      "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
      Clark Olmstead

      Comment


      • #4
        I see that you did connect it per the Bob Johnstone Website instructions, but not knowing Hondas that well, I have to wonder if you got a Newer one than the type Bob used?

        Those many cooling vents on the back are very characteristic of a INTERNAL Regulated Alternator, which would be wired totally differently.

        Was that Condensor connected to that 8 or B Terminal from the Factory or did you do that?
        Last edited by StudeRich; 10-16-2017, 11:01 PM.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          Joe V;
          If you are getting a spark at the positive terminal when you go to start the car; is the terminal loose. If it is you are loosing continuity; no electricity will flow to the starter solenoid. Hence no start.
          As far as a Honda alternator goes; I no nothing. Check on line or in a Honda manual with the model number of the alternator to find out what each terminal does.
          Ron

          Comment


          • #6
            I found the old thread about this. I don't know if it will help. I wonder if it's the right one like StudeRich said.

            http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...nda+alternator

            Comment


            • #7
              Honda CVCC Alternator Hookup

              I have a Honda CVCC alternator on my 1964 Wagonaire that works great --

              Two wires to alternator -- third wire goes to ground on block -- see pictures --
              Attached Files
              Bill Jackameit
              1964 Challenger Wagonaire
              1964 Daytona Sedan
              Total of 10 Studebakers owned since 1961
              Bill Jackameit's Studebaker Page online since October 1995
              https://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/studpg.htm

              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                I see that you did connect it per the Bob Johnstone Website instructions, but not knowing Hondas that well, I have to wonder if you got a Newer one than the type Bob used?

                Those many cooling vents on the back are very characteristic of a INTERNAL Regulated Alternator, which would be wired totally differently.

                Was that Condensor connected to that 8 or B Terminal from the Factory or did you do that?
                I was thinking this unit may be newer too as is doesn't appear to look like the one in Bobs instructions. Maybe it is Internally Regulated. It is possible they gave me the wrong one or it may have been packaged incorrectly, I'll do some research on it...oh, and the condensor was connected that way straight outa the box.
                Cheers,
                JOE

                --------------------------------------------------

                "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
                Clark Olmstead

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ron Strasser View Post
                  Joe V;
                  If you are getting a spark at the positive terminal when you go to start the car; is the terminal loose. If it is you are loosing continuity; no electricity will flow to the starter solenoid. Hence no start.
                  As far as a Honda alternator goes; I no nothing. Check on line or in a Honda manual with the model number of the alternator to find out what each terminal does.
                  Ron
                  The battery terminal is tight, I made sure of it, Ive learned my lesson on bad connections. I tried looking online for the wring instructions for this model Honda but was not successful in my search, there were some drawing but they really didn't explain clearly enough for me. Maybe I should look for an old haynes or chiltons at the library that's nearby.
                  Cheers,
                  JOE

                  --------------------------------------------------

                  "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
                  Clark Olmstead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bordeaux Daytona View Post
                    I found the old thread about this. I don't know if it will help. I wonder if it's the right one like StudeRich said.

                    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...nda+alternator
                    I read it earlier in my searches but I just read again, slowly this time. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention. I'm going to research/exchange this budget alt and order me a electronic regulator that studerich mentioned just for good measure.
                    Cheers,
                    JOE

                    --------------------------------------------------

                    "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
                    Clark Olmstead

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bjackameit View Post
                      I have a Honda CVCC alternator on my 1964 Wagonaire that works great --

                      Two wires to alternator -- third wire goes to ground on block -- see pictures --
                      Looks good. White w/red stripe to F and Power wire to B terminal, ground to the block. I think I have the wrong one.
                      Cheers,
                      JOE

                      --------------------------------------------------

                      "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
                      Clark Olmstead

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Be careful there Joe, you need to pay attention to the Wire Gauge more than the Colors, Mr. Jackameit's photo is not clear on the colors.

                        The Larger 8 or 10 Gauge White W/Red Tracer wire HAS to be the Main Power to the large terminal, then the White with a Black Tracer, slightly smaller wire, 12-14 Ga. goes to Field "F" just like you had it.

                        Since you originally had a bouncing Ammeter Gauge reading that started this whole issue, just MAYBE the Regulator is shorted and is the whole problem all along!
                        StudeRich
                        Second Generation Stude Driver,
                        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Honda CVCC Alternator Hook-up

                          Rich is correct -- the fatter wire with flat round connector to the "B" terminal on the alternator, the thinner wire with the push connector to "F" connection on the alternator, the third wire also smaller with smaller flat round connector goes to the ground connection on the Prestolite unit but is not needed on the Honda unit which is grounded by being bolted to the engine so I just connected the third (ground) wire to the bracket at the block in case I ever go back to Prestolite. Mine has been hooked up as shown in the pics for several years and works fine no problems keeps battery fully charged. Voltage regulator is the standard Studebaker/Chrysler type.
                          Attached Files
                          Bill Jackameit
                          1964 Challenger Wagonaire
                          1964 Daytona Sedan
                          Total of 10 Studebakers owned since 1961
                          Bill Jackameit's Studebaker Page online since October 1995
                          https://billstudepage.homestead.com/files/studpg.htm

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So I went back to the auto parts store and exchanged alternators. The replacement had a different body with a B designation on the power terminal. I attached the wires as before, 10g to power, 12g to F, 14g to a temporary ground, but before attempting to start it I also replaced the Voltage Regulator with an Electronic Voltage Regulator disguised as a mechanical one. (see photos)

                            Fired up no problem, the alt gauge dial was steady, smooth and charging...nice.

                            So what did I do wrong? Hooked up the first alt incorrectly and possibly put the orig voltage regular in a state of shock.

                            One thing I do want to mention, the alternator did need some spacers to fit correctly, I just used washers. (see photo)

                            Thanks for all the replys.
                            Attached Files
                            Cheers,
                            JOE

                            --------------------------------------------------

                            "After all is said and done, a hell of a lot more is said than done"
                            Clark Olmstead

                            Comment

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