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Anit-Freeze

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  • Anit-Freeze

    There was a thread back sometime about not using the new type anti-freeze. All I gathered was not to use it. So, question. Whay should we not use it? Is it too thin, ie: can leak thru small crevaces that old style wouldn't, does it attack our engine blocks, is it bad for our old radiators? Does it not mix well with the old style?

    Thanks

  • #2
    Bill, here is the thread that Bob Palma started on coolant. It
    would appear that the new stuff just isn't as good as the old.
    Much like the change over in the diesel rated motor oil to the
    newer EPA friendly stuff, that doesn't have the zinc in it.

    http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com...hTerms=coolant

    glen Brose - Perkinsville, AZ

    Comment


    • #3
      I have been using the glycol antifreeze produced for diesel engines as it does not have the additive package produced in the "new" automotive antifreeze. The package includes silicone that has been known to clog passages and create an overheating issue very difficult to diagnose. I've seen two brand x engines that had that exact issue. We had to strip them down, boil them out and rebuild. Both were 100k plus cast-iron V-8 engines. Both probably did not have regular maintenance judging by the build-up.

      Brian K. Curtis,
      1925 Duplex-Phaeton ER
      1949 1/2 ton pickup
      1963 GT Hawk custom
      1966 Daytona 2dr

      Comment


      • #4
        How about this stuff? (advertised in an autostore flyer today)


        <h5>Mark
        '57 Transtar
        3E-6/7-122
        </h5>
        Mark Hayden
        '66 Commander
        Zone Coordinator
        Pacific Can-Am Zone

        Comment


        • #5
          Maybe I am mis-readung things, but I have a gallon of the "NEW" stuff and it says 50/50 contains ethylene glycol 107-21-1 diethylene glycol 111-46-6 sodium 2 ethyl hexonate 19766-89-3 sodium neodecanote 31548-27-3

          I am confused as usual.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bill, in cruising through the original thread(above) Bob said that
            the new or the universal mixes "might" be OK for those cars that
            are daily drivers, but if you store your "HFH" over winter, then the
            old stuff may be better during the storage time....at least that is
            what I got out of the original thread. You might want to "shoot"
            Mr. Palma and email to see what he says............

            glen Brose - Perkinsville, AZ

            Comment


            • #7
              Air is the only fluid thing that we can still us in our cars. Nitrogen will be mandated for tires next year?[?][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]

              Comment


              • #8
                Antifreeze can be confusing. I came across a site that gives some good information on the different colors.
                http://eetcorp.com Click on antifreeze FAQ in drop menu under antifreeze to left on home page. Lot of information there. Make note of reference
                chart link in couple of answers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  50/50 pre-mix is for lazy folk. I wouldn't use that...

                  Brian K. Curtis,
                  1925 Duplex-Phaeton ER
                  1949 1/2 ton pickup
                  1963 GT Hawk custom
                  1966 Daytona 2dr

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ONE GREAT THING ABOUT THE PREMIX. Is that the manufacturers use deionized water( no hardness salts or other nasties). That means you will not clog your radiator with scale caused by hard water,
                    If you live in a very soft water area or have a water softener, it is probably not an issue.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I just use Distilled water added to the Prestone, it only takes 9 quarts and it's a lot cheaper than overpriced pre-mix.

                      StudeRich
                      Studebakers Northwest
                      Ferndale, WA
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [quote]Originally posted by bondobilly

                        Maybe I am mis-readung things, but I have a gallon of the "NEW" stuff and it says 50/50 contains ethylene glycol 107-21-1 diethylene glycol 111-46-6 sodium 2 ethyl hexonate 19766-89-3 sodium neodecanote 31548-27-3

                        I am confused as usual.

                        The ethylene glycol and diethylene glycol are the actual "antifreeze compounds". The hexonate and neodecanote are part of the corrosion inhibitor package.These are based on Carboxylic acid compounds. There should be some other ingredients for corrosion inhibition such as triazoles and possibly phosphonates.
                        The problem with some of these ingredients are that they, are also, compounds known as surfactants. They can act as wetting agents, which
                        helps the liquid to penetrate small holes and cracks in gaskets and hoses. This may be what people are seeing, in what they preceive as premature failure.
                        Older glycol formulations typically used silicates and nitrites, the glycol wasn't quite as "wet", and therefore, did not as readily penetrate the cracks and holes in old sealing materials, such as gaskets.
                        The effects of these surfactants/corrosion inhibitors would be most pronounced in the formulas labelled "all organic". Older formulations can still be found usually in the less expensive antifreezes. Have fun[8D]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          After reading that thread, I did some research on ASME and SAE papers. My conclusion was that if you have a "modern car", you use exactly what is spec-ed in the owner's manual, G5, G12, what ever. For older cars, which I would assume includes all Studebakers, then the old-fashioned anti-freeze without silicon (SCA) or organic compounds (OAT/HOAT/DexCool) is best. I use propylene glycol instead of ethylene glycol based antifreeze despite the extra cost as all my older cars have occasional small leaks, and I have pets. The papers indicate that propy has a slightly lower boiling point, but is less prone to cavitation keeping it more in contact with the metal surfaces. The consensus appears to be that unless you truly have an extreme case, they are operationally equivalent.

                          And yes, I buy distilled water, it is dirt cheap. I first fill the proper amount of anti-freeze, then top off with the distilled water. The do it yourself approach over pre-mixed more than pays for my using propy...

                          this link should help on all those colors, et.al.
                          http://eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf

                          quote:Originally posted by bondobilly

                          There was a thread back sometime about not using the new type anti-freeze. All I gathered was not to use it. So, question. Whay should we not use it? Is it too thin, ie: can leak thru small crevaces that old style wouldn't, does it attack our engine blocks, is it bad for our old radiators? Does it not mix well with the old style?

                          Thanks

                          Terry, North Texas
                          1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
                          (in stage 1 resto "Project A")
                          http://sterkel.org/avanti
                          1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
                          1999 Toyota rice burner
                          1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

                          New resolution.
                          I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
                          challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
                          I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Water softners use SALT to replace other minerals. Hard water has multiple minerals, calcium one of them. The Salt would be very corrosive in my opinion.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              To further complicate this. I emailed and got a number of respones from Bob and he asked for the UPC code of what I have. On his list he says to stay away from it. Everyone is saying to stay away from anything that has OAT/HOAT/ etc. I cannot find those terms on any anti freeze locally.

                              What am I missing.? Is the NY area exempt from this OAT/HOAT stuff as there are too many "older" cars here? I am not talking antique or collectibles, but like cars from the 80's and 90's???

                              Comment

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