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1990s Vintage Turner Disc Brake Components

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  • Brakes: 1990s Vintage Turner Disc Brake Components

    I have very early Turner brakes on the 63GT, likely from the 1990s, with caliper in front of the king pins. I have a rotor that is likely warped, and prefer to just replace it instead of turning it down. While at it, I may replace the pads with, "Green Stuff" pads, by EBC, just for grins.

    Question: Does anyone know what rotors and calipers were used on the early Turner brake kits, the ones with caliper in front of king pin?

    Hopefully Jim Turner will chime in, but maybe someone else knows the answer too.

    Thanks,

    Joe H

  • #2
    I also have some from way back when, and we used the Standard Chev. Chevelle/El Camino Caliper just like MOST newer turner Kits and the Same '69-'70 Ford Mustang Rotor.
    I remember that the Newer ones do not require that you install the R/H Turner Bracket on the Left & vice versa like the old ones did.
    Mounting them front or rear of the Spindle does not change the Rotor Type.

    I HOPE I got that right but Jim will have to fine tune it, I am sure.

    I was happy that we were able to install the Factory Dust Shield on the inboard side to protect the Rotors from all the Grease points on the Stude. Suspension not to mention the Oil, Water and Mud.

    The small pointed corners on each side of the opening for the Dunlap Caliper were trimmed off.

    My opinion is these work the BEST on a Factory Disc. Brake equipped '63-'66 Lark Type Stude. with the 11 Inch Finned Rear non-servo Drum Brakes and Bendix Master-Vac Power Booster. Or of course an Avanti.
    Stops on a Dime with 9 cents change!
    Last edited by StudeRich; 08-17-2017, 08:13 PM.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      Thanks Rich,
      Looking on Summitt, there is a 69 Mustang rotor, and 70-73 rotor. Only difference I see in the spec sheet is the rotor thickness: .935" v. .940". Wonder if there are other differences, i.e. wheel bearings or seals?

      Comment


      • #4
        Joe,
        The rotors I originally used (an still do) are the 68-69 mustang rotors, there ARE differences in the 70 -73 rotors.
        I am assuming, your calipers mount in front of the king pins? that would use the S-10 2 wheel drive caliper, if they mount behind the kingpin, use the 4 wheel drive caliper. The calipers have been the only thing changed over the last 30+ years.

        Jim
        "We can't all be Heroes, Some us just need to stand on the curb and clap as they go by" Will Rogers

        We will provide the curb for you to stand on and clap!


        Indy Honor Flight www.IndyHonorFlight.org

        As of Veterans Day 2017, IHF has flown 2,450 WWII, Korean, and Vietnam Veterans to Washington DC at NO charge! to see
        their Memorials!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 52 Ragtop View Post
          Joe,
          The rotors I originally used (an still do) are the 68-69 mustang rotors, there ARE differences in the 70 -73 rotors.
          I am assuming, your calipers mount in front of the king pins? that would use the S-10 2 wheel drive caliper, if they mount behind the kingpin, use the 4 wheel drive caliper. The calipers have been the only thing changed over the last 30+ years.

          Jim
          Jim,
          Thanks much. Mine does have he calipers in front of the king pins. You musta got it pretty much correct, to not have to make any other changes in 30+ years. I can see why you relocated the calipers, since mine kiss the frame rail, if the steering wheel is turned lock to lock, in either direction. When I first got the car, someone had welded a plate on the lip of the frame, to limit steering travel enough to avoid the caliper to frame kissing. Only problem was, they located it exactly in front of the grease fitting for the steering pivot pin. Looking back, I shoulda just drilled a 9/16" hole through the plate, but did not figure out what it was for, till later. There was a lot of goofy things on that car I needed to address when I first got it. My theory was, someone who smoked a lot of pot had worked on it, i.e. the caliper mount bolts: some were tight, and some were only half screwed in. LOL

          Other than frame kissing, those brakes work great, especially with the 11" rear drums, since the car originally had factory DBs. Think I am gonna try some of EBC's, "green stuff" pads, just for grins.

          Thanks Again,
          Joe H

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          • #6
            Joe,

            Does the bracket that the caliper mount to, have two ears on it? or only one? IF two, you can swap the brackets from side to side and eliminate any clearance issues.

            Jim
            "We can't all be Heroes, Some us just need to stand on the curb and clap as they go by" Will Rogers

            We will provide the curb for you to stand on and clap!


            Indy Honor Flight www.IndyHonorFlight.org

            As of Veterans Day 2017, IHF has flown 2,450 WWII, Korean, and Vietnam Veterans to Washington DC at NO charge! to see
            their Memorials!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 52 Ragtop View Post
              Joe,

              Does the bracket that the caliper mount to, have two ears on it? or only one? IF two, you can swap the brackets from side to side and eliminate any clearance issues.

              Jim
              Jim,
              I have no idea bout the caliper mount ears, but will crawl under and look tomorrow. If there are two, I will consider myself lucky, and try swapping them when I replace the rotor and pads.
              Thanks,
              Joe

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              • #8
                Hi Jim,
                I believe the brackets have two ears, best I can see. But the clearance problem is that the back of the caliper is kissing the frame. Looks like it has been a problem since they were first installed, back in the day. The frame lip has been ground down, then reinforced above and below. But they stopped short; needed to grind another .125" at least, but maybe their answer was to install the steering travel limiter, I mentioned above. Looking at the brackets, I cannot see how swapping sides would move the caliper farther outboard, and if it did, the rotor would then be out of alignment with the pads.

                I may just buy a pair of later caliper mounts, from you and be done with it.

                Thanks,
                Joe H
                Last edited by JoeHall; 08-20-2017, 05:54 AM.

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                • #9
                  GM calipers... Napa numbers: 242-2033 & 242-2032.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks Xcalibur for those part numbers, but not looking for calipers at this time, but it may be a good idea since it looks like I am gonna get deeper into this car's front brakes than intended. It looks like 83-94 Ranger pads are all the same part number, so I am guessing the calipers are the same during those years also.
                    Joe H
                    Last edited by JoeHall; 08-21-2017, 10:29 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Digging a little deeper, it looks like same calipers and pads were used on VARIOUS FoMoCo through 1997. So with 21 years' production, 1983-97, I'd say calipers and pads are gonna be available for a loong time for Jim Turner's kits.
                      Last edited by JoeHall; 08-21-2017, 12:05 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Note my post, again please, Joe. These are NOT Ford calipers and pads. They are for mid-sized (as I recall) General Motors cars. I have the complete list of the cars they fit as printed for me by my very cooperative Napa store, but didn't bother looking for it since I had a receipt for the new calipers I put on my Avanti some years ago, replacing the ones I'd gotten with my very early Turner kit. Turner did NOT use a single manufacturer's parts for that kit.

                        I like to do my best to keep info I provide here as accurate as possible in case someone down the road needs it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Xcalibur View Post
                          Note my post, again please, Joe. These are NOT Ford calipers and pads. They are for mid-sized (as I recall) General Motors cars. I have the complete list of the cars they fit as printed for me by my very cooperative Napa store, but didn't bother looking for it since I had a receipt for the new calipers I put on my Avanti some years ago, replacing the ones I'd gotten with my very early Turner kit. Turner did NOT use a single manufacturer's parts for that kit.

                          I like to do my best to keep info I provide here as accurate as possible in case someone down the road needs it.
                          Oops, I overlooked 'GM' in the number you provided but, holly cow, that number is for a plethora of GM products, 1978-2004 !

                          Now it appears I have another problem; I must first figure out which calipers, FoMoCo or GM, are on my car before ordering any pads. OTOH, if one of the two is fatter, perhaps I have the, "fat" version and the skinny version would do away with the caliper-to-frame clearance problem I mentioned above.

                          Thanks
                          Joe H
                          Last edited by JoeHall; 08-22-2017, 07:20 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Joe, the frame-to-caliper issue was common to all of the early Turner kits. That's probably why it was eventually changed. I (and, others) who got one of these kits learned to modify the frame slightly to allow more clearance with the steering fully locked. The thickness of the pads wasn't the issue, but instead, the basic design. I might add that my kit has been on my Avanti for nearly two-and-a-half decades without post-mounting issues.

                            My "full" kit was early enough that I found some design/fab problems with it entailing machine-shop work. For instance, my Turner mounting brackets did NOT quite clear the Ford rotors, which rubbed. Also, the seal adapters I got were machined too small and could not be fitted onto the spindles completely without modification. When I contacted Turner about my issues his response was essentially, "Yeah, there were some early problems." Ya think?

                            Yes, I was surprised when Napa printed the full list of vehicles that used these calipers and saw how many there were. Of course, the good is that new they are (or were) dirt cheap. Also, as memory serves, I think I had to grind a small "knob" off of each to clear the Turner brackets. Perhaps, some had the knob and other not, or Turner had already thusly modified the ones he sent. In any event, not a big deal. All the best.

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                            • #15
                              Not to knock the turner brake conversion or any others they seem to work and have for many years. But, if you're considering changing your brakes completely Joe, here's one to consider if you're so inclined. There's a fellow here that made some aluminum brackets to use Mustang brakes. I made an even simpler steel bracket and mounted 2004 Mustang brakes. They fit very well and clear the frame and suspension with ease. Best of all, everything but the homemade bracket came from the same Mustang, no figuring out what was used. The bearings, seals, and hubs are your original Studebaker items. I got everything for all 4 brakes at the local pick n pull for $120, they had 14 cars to choose from. When I get around to mounting the rear brakes, which is even easier than the very easy fronts, I'll have the exact same brakes as a 2004 Mustang, which is actually 350 lbs heavier than my GT.

                              That being said. The front caliper clears everything very well, BUT, My '97 Crown Vic wheels did clip the calipers, (surprising because the '97 Vic has a VERY similar brake). It was the flange on the inside of the wheel that was bent in creating the gaps between the rim and hub/web. A torch and hammer took care of making those slots thinner, flattening the flange against the rim so they clear the caliper. With stock wheel covers the slots are pointless anyway. I'd expect any mag type wheel made for disk brakes to fit easily.
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