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58 Champion Dead on the Road!

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  • 58 Champion Dead on the Road!

    Last night I was driving the 58 Champion (Champion 6) I just sold getting it ready for delivery. After 60 miles of perfect driving, it started missing and eventualy died. It started right up, ran rough, but after high idling it for a few seconds, it ran fine for another 10 miles and repeated the cycle. Pulling off the rural road, I pulled the sediment bowl and cleaned it, fairly clean with a few small metal particles in it and then cleaned the carburetor screen which appeared pristine. I then proceeded to clean the dist cap inside and out as I had earlier spilled oil on it. After all this it would start but only stay running by manipulating the gas pedal, at intervals it would run smooth as silk for 30 seconds then go to missing and semi-backfiring, had to haul it home on a trailer. The Carb must be getting plenty of fuel as it would tend to flood. Any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated as tomorrow is the only good day to work on it this week as we await a big cold front here in N Texas. Thanks

    Bill Elbert

    59 4E11
    58 Champion
    57 3E11
    48 M16
    46 M15
    41 M5

  • #2
    Sure sounds like you're on the right track - carb related. I would
    tend to wonder if you have crap in the needle valves causing sticking
    floats (or float). Maybe a blast from an air nozzle into the fuel
    inlet might do the trick? Does the car have a fuel filter?

    Tom

    '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

    Comment


    • #3
      My vote is ignition related, points, condenser or coil. At least those symptoms matched point failure on a few of my cars.

      JDP/Maryland
      63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
      spent to date $54664,75
      64 R2 GT (Sid)
      spent to date $62,839.60
      63 Lark 2 door
      51 Commander
      39 Coupe express
      39 Coupe express (rod)

      JDP Maryland

      Comment


      • #4
        Arm chair (or computer chair) trouble shooting is difficult at best, but if your flooding suspicion is correct, a over pressure fuel pump caused by a swelled diaphragm is a possibility, and easy to test for, with a vacuum/pressure tester.

        StudeRich
        Studebakers Northwest
        Ferndale, WA
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          The frustrating thing is that while it is hard to start, once it starts you can eventually get to run smooth as silk for about a minute or two and then it will start missing and trying to backfire and then ir repeats the whole process again. I am going to tear into it this afternoon. If it was my Model A PU I'd say its the condenser.

          Bill Elbert

          59 4E11
          58 Champion
          57 3E11
          48 M16
          46 M15
          41 M5

          Comment


          • #6
            I have had the points slip before, and show the same symptoms.

            Comment


            • #7
              if your sure its getting gas my guess would be rotor, points, or coil

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm thinkin' Coil.[:I]

                Miscreant adrift in
                the BerStuda Triangle


                1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                1960 Larkvertible V8
                1958 Provincial wagon
                1953 Commander coupe

                No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Take the top off the carburetor, and check to see if the brass body that forms the seat for the float needle hasn't backed off a turn or two.

                  Saw this happen on a '50 Champion. Car would start, and then flood out if left idling. Drive it, and it would run fine for a few seconds as the fuel in the bowl was used up, and then it would die from fuel starvation. The needle seat had backed out SO FAR, that the needle was jammed against the tang on the float, and the float was at full drop. No fuel could get past the needle, but enough got around the outside of the seat body to flood it at idle, but not enough to run at cruise. It was hard thing to spot, beause it is so unexpected. But your car sounds like it has the same symptom.

                  Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands
                  Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My 57 Champion had done the same annoying routine. The screw to the points came loose and I lost the point gap.

                    1957 Studebaker Champion 2 door. Staten Island, New York.
                    1957 Studebaker Champion 2 door. Staten Island, New York.

                    "Education is not the learning of facts, but the training of the mind to think." -Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Worked on it tonight, filed the points and ran a paper thru them. Points looked pretty burned, but after the filing it ran smooth again. So I am going to replace the points/condenser tomorrow. Being a 58 Champion with the original Champ motor it is an autolite dist.?Anybody got numbers for the Fldaps (Friendly long distance auto>>>>&gt Life in the Tulies, it's a long ways to anything. Thanks so much for all the input, don't know how I would manage w/o you guys.

                      Bill Elbert

                      59 4E11
                      58 Champion
                      57 3E11
                      48 M16
                      46 M15
                      41 M5

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The very first time I had your symptoms, I chased the fuel system for a few days before doing the points. Just this week, the same issue came up on my 51, maybe the 10th car that kicked, backfired and sputtered just like you described. Most of the time it was the points, but as Bob suggested, the condenser can mimic those symptoms.
                        BTW, filing the points like you did may only help for a short time and you are correct to install new ones.

                        JDP/Maryland
                        63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
                        spent to date $54664,75
                        64 R2 GT (Sid)
                        spent to date $62,839.60
                        63 Lark 2 door
                        51 Commander
                        39 Coupe express
                        39 Coupe express (rod)

                        JDP Maryland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bill,

                          My 57 has the Autolite distributor. Most likely yours has it also.

                          1957 Studebaker Champion 2 door. Staten Island, New York.
                          1957 Studebaker Champion 2 door. Staten Island, New York.

                          "Education is not the learning of facts, but the training of the mind to think." -Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Many years ago (1983), my 55 exhibited the intermittent spit and sputter that is a symptom of bad points. I replaced the points, but the car still did it after the installation. A little while later after the fresh points, the car came to a complete standstill on South Michigan Street in South Bend and refused to start. This was the day before the 1983 International Meet Concours. I removed the distributor cap to find the new points melted together. I had to have the car towed home.

                            To make a long night's troubleshooting story short, two wires running through a clamp on the firewall (one of them went to the ignition) had rubbed together, causing a dead short. I replaced the wires, and the car has run nicely with the same set of points ever since.

                            Kevin Wolford
                            Plymouth, IN

                            55 Champion
                            60 Lark VI Conv.
                            63 Avanti R1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well problem solved. While replacing the points, condenser, rotor and plugs, I noticed that the wire inside the dist was bare, fixed it and wahlaw! runs like a spotted ape. Thanks to all for the valuable help.

                              Bill Elbert

                              59 4E11
                              58 Champion
                              57 3E11
                              48 M16
                              46 M15
                              41 M5

                              Comment

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