Spun bearings

[PackardV8]

Agreeing upon terminology is necessary for a technical discussion. The bearings in the photos are just worn, not "spun". A "spun bearing" has worn off all the babbit and copper, but the driver ignored the noise while steel shell has gotten so hot it locks upon the crankshaft journal and turns inside the rod or main cap. Often this destroys the crankshaft; the journal will be blued from the heat.

If the bearings are down to the copper like mine were, then the crankshaft will need to be turned and the entire engine disassembled and cleaned to remove all traces of the bearing material. This would also include new camshaft bearings.

Yes, the above is definitely best practice.

No, not CASO practice, as more than one here is saying to himself, "I just dropped the pan, put in new bearings and drove it another 10,000 miles before I sold that car; still running last time I saw it."

Maybe, evaluate each situation and decide upon what is necessary for the intended application and budget.

jack vines

[studegary]

The machinist just told me that the he found metal in the crankcase and that bearings were spun (don't know how many). Will have to take apart engine to inspect crankshaft. I have always taken care of my car and have only put 15k miles in nine years on the rebuilt engine. How could this happen?

I would be VERY WARY of any shop that refers to what is pictured as "spun bearings".
It IS possible that you drove it so much in this condition that you did spin one or more bearings, but that is not what is pictured.

[Jeffry Cassel]

OK So what are you all talking about with "spun bearings" I always thought it was the bearing was so bad friction caused it to sieze to the crank and spin in the rod. This ,of course, occurs just before everything seises, the rod breaks, and then everything else breaks. These bearings are just worn out; maybe they are some cheap Chinese crap. With adequate oil flow this shouldn't happen.

[Jeffry Cassel]

OK So what are you all talking about with "spun bearings" I always thought it was the bearing was so bad friction caused it to sieze to the crank and spin in the rod. This ,of course, occurs just before everything seises, the rod breaks, and then everything else breaks. These bearings are just worn out; maybe they are some cheap Chinese crap. With adequate oil flow this shouldn't happen. ( Should read before posting! Thank you PackardV8 for your sage comments.)

[tsenecal]

Packard V8 described it accurately. The friction/heat between bearing surface and crank gets great enough, that the inserts spin in the block or rod ends. This would definitely ruin the crank, or best case scenario, need to be turned undersize.

[wittsend]

I would be VERY WARY of any shop that refers to what is pictured as "spun bearings".
It IS possible that you drove it so much in this condition that you did spin one or more bearings, but that is not what is pictured.

Those pictures are not from plee4139 the original poster who suggested he has spun bearings. They are from dpson. Quote post number 10 "Here is a photo of the bearings removed from my 289." Dpson never claimed the pictured image was spun bearings, only that he had a suspicion of "bad bearings."

[plee4139]

If indeed, the worst-case scenario of a complete or nearly complete engine rebuild is needed, how much can I realistically expect to pay? Remember this is through a legitimate engine rebuilder, so please no "My friend did it on weekends for $50 in parts he got from e-bay."

[jclary]

If indeed, the worst-case scenario of a complete or nearly complete engine rebuild is needed, how much can I realistically expect to pay? Remember this is through a legitimate engine rebuilder, so please no "My friend did it on weekends for $50 in parts he got from e-bay."

I believe the author of post #16 does this kind of work professionally. (That's my impression, I could be wrong.) Although, there are often regional variations in labor rates, he should be able to provide you "ball park" figures. The same variations will be found with some parts. Just like finding competent skilled mechanics, caution should be exercised with sourcing parts. Many of us have accumulated various parts. However, I've seen parts inventories poorly stored, picked through, and miss-identified. Some parts placed in the wrong boxes, and sometimes used parts put back in boxes that contained the new replacements. Then, there is always the chance that some parts were salvaged from a manufacturer's quality control rejects.

Your chance of getting your money's worth increases greatly by dealing with reputable mechanics, and sourcing parts from a well organized vendor. Something I must admit, I have not always done myself. "Like pouring $50 into lottery tickets,"... it's a gamble that,often, don't pay off! Of course, with the lottery tickets, they don't come back and charge you thousands to play again!

I'm sorry you find yourself in this position. I hope you are able to recover from this setback to once again enjoy your car.

[studegary]

Those pictures are not from plee4139 the original poster who suggested he has spun bearings. They are from dpson. Quote post number 10 "Here is a photo of the bearings removed from my 289." Dpson never claimed the pictured image was spun bearings, only that he had a suspicion of "bad bearings."

Yes, you are correct about the pictures.
With the subject/title by plee4139 of "spun bearings" as the diagnosis on an engine that was still running well enough that he was advised that he could continue to drive it, I would still be wary of the mechanic/shop.

[PackardV8]

If indeed, the worst-case scenario of a complete or nearly complete engine rebuild is needed, how much can I realistically expect to pay? Remember this is through a legitimate engine rebuilder, so please no "My friend did it on weekends for $50 in parts he got from e-bay."

On any rebuilding quote, ask what new parts are included and what is being remachined. Lots of very necessary little things non-Stude shops don't always include, such as completely disassembling the rocker shafts and rocker arms, cleaning internally and regrinding rocker tips is three hours of shop time. Are they remachining the connecting rod big ends? Do they know there are two very-difficult-to-remove plugs in the rear of the block? Most don't bother, but then they don't get the oil galleys cleaned.

To do a Stude long block correctly, cleaned, shot blasted, painted with all new wear parts and the block, crank, cam, rods and rockers remachined, figure a minimum of $3,000. Blueprinted, to include align honing main bores, square decking block, balancing, runs about $4,000.

Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

[studegary]

On any rebuilding quote, ask what new parts are included and what is being remachined. Lots of very necessary little things non-Stude shops don't always include, such as completely disassembling the rocker shafts and rocker arms, cleaning internally and regrinding rocker tips is three hours of shop time. Are they remachining the connecting rod big ends? Do they know there are two very-difficult-to-remove plugs in the rear of the block? Most don't bother, but then they don't get the oil galleys cleaned.

To do a Stude long block correctly, cleaned, shot blasted, painted with all new wear parts and the block, crank, cam, rods and rockers remachined, figure a minimum of $3,000. Blueprinted, to include align honing main bores, square decking block, balancing, runs about $4,000.

Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

I completely support what Jack said.

Another approach that would be quicker and probably a lot cheaper is to buy a good running 289, perhaps in a rusty or wrecked hulk, and install that engine in your car.

[tbredehoft]

buy a good running 289,

I did that several years ago when I rebuilt my '55 Land Cruiser. The 259 was frozen, I found a (nearly local) Studebaker dealer who had an unopened (didn't know what it looked like inside) full flow '63 289 for less than $1000. I bought it, knowing rebuild prices. Took it home, pulled one head off to look at the valves, etc. I found there was only about .0001 taper (yeah, that's 3 zeros) in the cylinders, (original size) they still had crosshatch in them from when first assembled.) The engine did use oil, but after 6 years, it's around a quart in 1000 miles. It's almost new, runs well. I can recommend the concept, if not a particular engine.

[6hk71400]

If I had to have an engine rebuilt, I would find a way to get it to Jack Vines, based on all the information I have collected here on the forum. Jack is relatively close for me but not you Peter. After all, I would be confident that the work that Jack did would last the rest of my lifetime and use.

There must be somebody on the eastern United States that is a Studebaker expert like Jack. The other advise is just as good: getting a good engine out of a otherwise non restorable car and use that.

Best of Luck
Bob Miles
Tucson AZ

[JoeHall]

I'd wait and see what the bearings & crank look like when the machinist removes the bearings. If the worst journal in the crank is not grooved sufficiently to catch your fingernail, when raked across the journal, side to side, the crank may be polish-able. Even if it does have moderate grooves, remember the grooves run long wise, and not crosswise. In other words, they won't grind the bearings down in future use (but will, "bed in" to the bearings). Most likely, the worst journals will be #3 for the mains, and #1/2 for the rods, but insect them all very closely.

Depending on your plans for the car, polishing and new bearings may still be OK. If you doubt you will ever put more than 5000 miles on the car, and could care less about an estate sale after your demise, polishing may be a consideration, depending on the worst journal, as explained above.

[4jc8z]

In other words, they won't grind the bearings down in future use (but will, "bed in" to the bearings).

Note, some of the reproduction Tri-metal bearings floating around do not have enough babbit bearing material on them to "bed in". The old Clevite tri-metals did, but the new sealed power ones sold by vendors don't. We went through that in 2011.