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  • Fuel System: Stude V8 Fuel Pump Help Request

    Quality info request (no snide comments, please)

    I have the opportunity to meet with the Airtex corporate people in two weeks on an unrelated subject.
    But the meeting itself might spur the conversation toward the ongoing problem Studebaker buyers seem to be having with oil leaking out the pivot shaft on the Airtex p/n# AC4227 fuel pump.
    In preparing my fact based information list for them I noticed some obvious errors on their application sheet...
    http://www.e-webcatalog.com/AirtexWe...27&Manuf_No=NA
    http://www.e-webcatalog.com/AirtexWe...27&Manuf_No=NA
    (doubtful link will work..)
    Anyways...
    Since I am of limited scope, time, and patience...
    I toss this 'fixit' biscuit out to you'ze guys and gals...
    What else do you see wrong with the application listing that I can see if I can get corrected...
    (Besides the illustration being upside down)

    And let me know what else there is about this part number that has given us problems.
    Thanks ahead of time.
    Jeff[8D]





    Deep-N-Hock Acres
    Brooklet, Georgia
    DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
    '37 Coupe Express
    '37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
    '61 Hawk (project: Ist Gen Owner - project)
    Mysterious Project Z
    http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

  • #2
    Jeff,

    IIRC, the "Master" line of fuel pumps sold at Autozone, Adavance AP and I'm sure other parts stores, is made by Airtex. I had continious trouble with oil leaks from the vent hole in the top of the pump body. This occured on numerous V8 Studes I've worked on...had to replace them all with the Carter (Federal-Mogul) pump and had no further trouble. The store manager where I bought these, gave me a refund on all of them, as well as the "Tech hot line" # to Airtex. In that conversation, the "tech" (right[B)]) told me the pumps are pressure tested and the oil seal is rated at 4psi. At that point, he stated that my engine MUST be worn out and have too much blow-by and/or too much crankcase pressure. I told him the motor was NOT worn out and there is plenty of crankcase ventilation, with valve cover breathers, PCV systems, road draft tubes, etc. At that point he stated the problem was NOT with their pumps...they were all made to specs. Just my personal experience with Airtex.
    Thanks Jeff for your efforts...It would be nice to have another pump source that would work correctly.

    Dan Miller
    Atlanta, GA

    [img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
    Road Racers turn left AND right.

    Comment


    • #3
      One error I see is that there were no 224 V8 engines used in 1957 Trucks... '56 was the last year for the 224.

      <h5>Mark
      '57 Transtar
      3E-6/7-122
      </h5>
      [img]
      Mark Hayden
      '66 Commander
      Zone Coordinator
      Pacific Can-Am Zone

      Comment


      • #4
        (1) All of the "Commander" notes need to be deleted from 1959 thru '63

        (2) Add President from 1955 thru 1958

        (3) On 1955 Comm. Pres. delete 283 add 224

        (4) Add Power Hawk to 1956 Sky Hawk, change to: 259,289

        (5) Add Silver Hawk to 1957 & 1958 Commander, President

        (6) Add to 1958 Packard: "(except Hawk)"

        (7) Delete Lark from 1964

        (8) Add Challenger, Daytona, Cruiser to above (already says Commander)

        (9) All 1963 Except Truck should say (except R1, R2)

        (10) All 1964 Except Truck should say (except R1,2,3,4)

        (11) On 1961 Lark add Cruiser add 289,

        (12) On 1962, 1963, 1964 Lark add 289

        (13) Add 1959 Hawk 259

        (14) Add 1960 Hawk 289

        (15) Add 1961 Hawk 289

        (16) 1957 & 1958 Truck: Add 289, delete 1957 224

        (17) Add 1960 Truck 259,289

        (18) Delete all Liter #'s as no one knows or cares what they mean on an AMERICAN CAR! And because they were NEVER identified as such!

        I don't think it would be "snide" at all to say here that there is no doubt in my mind, that this is the worst Automotive part listing I have ever seen I my Life!

        Also mention that the POURING of oil is sometimes from the vent, but it's always from the pin driven through the case and or the lack of a oil seal internally on the actuator lever. This situation is NOT isolated, we can site literally hundreds of examples and NONE that are driven, do not leak over a years time. Thank you! [^]

        Actually, I can PARTLY understand how they got into such a mess! Normally in listings like NAPA, you see ranges of years and models grouped. But because of the other models having so many models and engines, their general policy is to list every year AND every model separately. And the format for Studebaker needs to match the rest, even though you could easily condense that to say all '55-'64 V-8 cars & trucks except Jet Thrust, Supercharged and '56 GH (56J).

        Thanks very much for talking to them Jeff, many have tried but not in person, that should really help. You have my permission to print this for reference! [^]

        StudeRich Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          I didn't take it that way at all.
          I was (and am) looking for fact based, and verifiable, feedback to provide to the appropriate people at the appropriate time.
          That's why I asked for info, and some failed product.
          I saw all the errors on their web catalog page and realized I did not have all the application info in my somewhat empty head...so I asked you all..
          I just didn't want to see a forum fire start about stuff that can't be answered to.
          I need to go there with solid questions, and complaints, and be able to offer solutions, and opportunities.
          Thanks Rich (and all that have replied...or will be replying)
          Jeff[8D]



          quote:Originally posted by StudeRich
          &lt;snip for space&gt;
          I don't think it would be "snide" at all to say here that there is no doubt in my mind, that this is the worst Automotive part listing I have ever seen I my Life!
          &lt;snip for space&gt;
          HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

          Jeff


          Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



          Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

          Comment


          • #6
            failure I experienced was oil coming past the stem seal and onto the top of the diaphragm. Unfortunately this was a Golden Hawk pump and I had no supercharger, so it all blew back onto my exhaust I can't guarantee that the engine on which this happened didn't have excessive blowby, but the "glass bowl" pump I replaced it with did not have this issue.

            nate


            --
            55 Commander Starlight
            http://members.cox.net/njnagel
            --
            55 Commander Starlight
            http://members.cox.net/njnagel

            Comment


            • #7
              ON MY AIRTEC FUEL PMP OIL LEAKED FROM THE UPPER AREA AND THE PIN KEPT SLIDING TO THE LEFT. THEN GAS CAME OUT IN A STREAM BUTTHE DIAPHRAM SEEMED FINE.

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree with curt. As well as the vent hole messing up the engine compartment, the pivot pin slides this way and that. And lately, the new Carters I've gotten from NAPA haven't been any better! I finally, grudgingly have gone to electric pumps.[V]

                Miscreant adrift in
                the BerStuda Triangle


                1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                1960 Larkvertible V8
                1958 Provincial wagon
                1953 Commander coupe

                No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wondered why V8 fuel pumps keep getting cheaper and cheaper on e-bay....[B)][xx(]

                  <h5>Mark
                  '57 Transtar
                  3E-6/7-122
                  </h5>
                  [img]
                  Mark Hayden
                  '66 Commander
                  Zone Coordinator
                  Pacific Can-Am Zone

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, I would beware of all of those M2211 Carter, Airtex or otherwise! They are all the same, (poor in 1955, and worse today design)! They were originally designed and sold by AC Div. of GM.

                    StudeRich
                    Studebakers Northwest
                    Ferndale, WA
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What's your opinion on R1 fuel pumps. I needed one,in South Bend, and wanted to help SASCO. They were out of stock so went with Stude INTL. The price shocked me but it is serving me well. I want to rebuild my old pump for a back up. Is this a good idea? If so, any hints on the project? Huck PS I'm thinking of a trip to South Bend, in May. That will help get me through the rest of this Michigan Winter.

                      Gary Hildebrandt

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gary, I think rebuilding your old one is a good idea. I've not heard of these larger capacity pumps being a problem. The only caution I'd offer is that you get your rebuild kit from a supplier with fresh stock. The older kits weren't made from stuff that can stand today's gasoline's ethanol addatives![B)]

                        It's also a reason I wouldn't buy some bargain rebuilt pump that's been on some back shelf for 10 or more years! There's rebuilt pumps and such on ebay that I wouldn't use if I got them for free![8]

                        Miscreant adrift in
                        the BerStuda Triangle


                        1957 Transtar 1/2ton
                        1960 Larkvertible V8
                        1958 Provincial wagon
                        1953 Commander coupe

                        No deceptive flags to prove I'm patriotic - no biblical BS to impress - just ME and Studebakers - as it should be.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you Mr. B. Can you recommend a supplier most likey to have fresh stock?

                          Gary Hildebrandt

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have 2006 Mfg. ones in stock here, with instructions. I am sure most Studebaker Vendors at studebakervendors.com do also, you can always ask if they are old NOS or new stock.

                            quote:Originally posted by Huck

                            Thank you Mr. B. Can you recommend a supplier most likey to have fresh stock?
                            StudeRich
                            Studebakers Northwest
                            Ferndale, WA
                            StudeRich
                            Second Generation Stude Driver,
                            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On the 3 pumps my brother tried before he gave up and used electric the problem was that the arm had too much freeplay. On the bench it would pump fine by hand, but the enginre did not have enough stroke to make them pump.

                              1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, 1947 M5. Searcy,Arkansas
                              "In the heart of Arkansas."
                              Searcy, Arkansas
                              1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
                              1952 2R pickup

                              Comment

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