Front Suspension

[tbredehoft]

Quick and dirty.

Is it easy (possible) to remove the four 7/16 fine thread screws attaching the lower A Frame to the cross member with the engine in place?

I seem to be wasting a good Sunday afternoon trying. I got one front one out, the head on the other spins inside the socket. If I had to I could grind that head off, but not ones on the back. HOW DO I GET THEM OUT?

I'm waiting.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars3.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State Sedan (Under Construction)
'60 Lark VI (Sold, delivery in early Jan.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[Jerry Forrester]

quote:Originally posted by Tom B

Quick and dirty.

Is it easy (possible) to remove the four 7/16 fine thread screws attaching the lower A Frame to the cross member with the engine in place? I seem to be wasting a good Sunday afternoon trying. I got one front one out, the head on the other spins inside the socket. If I had to I could grind that head off, but not ones on the back. HOW DO I GET THEM OUT?
I'm waiting.
Tom Bredehoft

Cut the nuts off with an air chisel or torch and drive the bolts up and out.

Jerry Forrester
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_
for your shiny Stude stuff

More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu

[tbredehoft]

I got the two rear ones out, one had a 5/8 nut, the other an 11/16 nut, the screws seem to be fast. If I can get the other two (left side) rear ones out,I can survive. Will have to check that next.

Thanks, Jerry.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars3.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State Sedan (Under Construction)
'60 Lark VI (Sold, delivery in early Jan.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[gordr]

Tom, I hope you have a plan to restrain the lower A-arms once those bolts are out. If not, the car is going to jump a foot or so when the springs force the inner ends of the A-arms to the floor in a big hurry.

At the very least, please use a floor jack under the spring pocket.

Actually, I did this one time, the same way you propose, and it was a b***h to get the holes lined up again for new bolts. The spring puts a pretty mean twisting force on the A-arm.

The easy way:
1. remove shock absorber
2. put car on jack stands (behind front wheels)
3. put floor jack under spring pocket, raise it until it carries weight
4. wrap wire around steering knuckle and upper control arm
5. remove castle nut at bottom of king pin
6. slowly lower floor jack while tapping on the eye of the lower trunnion; the spring pressure shold easily force the eye off the keyed end of the kingpin
7. once the kingpin is free, carefully lower the floor jack all the way; if you had the car high enough, the spring will be completely released and safe to handle.

Removal of the A-arm shaft from the crossmember is now a piece of cake.

Reverse the procedure to reassemble.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[tbredehoft]

Gordy, where were you when I started. Yes, I've got car on several jack stands, the floor jack under the inside and three of the four nuts off.

I tried the other side, rear bolts. Both were so badly corroded they were just rings. I have one cut off with a chisel, will wait on the others till the right side is apart and I can get the floor jack under it.

I hadn't planned on changing my springs, though they were old with the twist-in spacers, but I broke off one of the bolts holding the lower shock support.

Back to work.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars3.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State Sedan (Under Construction)
'60 Lark VI (Sold, delivery in early Jan.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[gordr]

Tom, if you've gotten that far, you may as well continue. Sounds like you have the safet aspect covered.

You may as well disconnect the lower trunnion once you get it apart. Then you can work on the A-arm on the bench. Easier on the old back, doncha know? And while you have the lower trunnion off, you can drop the steering knuckle down, and service the king pin bearing, and the all-important thrust bearing. And replace the rotten little cork gasket with a suitable O-ring. Dollars to donuts, the car will steer a LOT easier when this is done.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[Jerry Forrester]

quote:Originally posted by gordr

Tom, if you've gotten that far, you may as well continue. Sounds like you have the safet aspect covered.

You may as well disconnect the lower trunnion once you get it apart. Then you can work on the A-arm on the bench. Easier on the old back, doncha know? And while you have the lower trunnion off, you can drop the steering knuckle down, and service the king pin bearing, and the all-important thrust bearing. And replace the rotten little cork gasket with a suitable O-ring. Dollars to donuts, the car will steer a LOT easier when this is done.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Gord, I agree that the best way to remove the lower control arm is to start with the kingpin castle nut. Not being a wise-arse here but none of that was in his question. He wanted help in removing the inner control arm mounting nuts and bolts. If someone asks me how to raise the hood on a '55 I dont start off by telling about the parking brake and where the park position is on the quadrant. I tell them where the hood latch release lever is.
I guess with me being sorta new on this forum I don't yet know the capabilities of all the other members and just assume they have a pretty good working knoledge of safty practices and mechanical appariti.(is that a word?)

Jerry Forrester
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_
for your shiny Stude stuff

More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu

[tbredehoft]

Jerry, you got me started in the right direction. I had not considered destructive removal of pieces and it worked a charm. Both front springs are out, standing on the ground next to the rear springs, all to be duplicated shortly.

Gord, you got me thinking. Yes, I want to clean up the lower A arms, will follow your suggestion, now that the whole thing is loose. Wire wheel and POR at the very least.

Before I go any farther, (and it will be a while before the springs come back new)[admitting that I don't know terminology,] I'll post a picture.



In the upper right hand corner are two details circled. While cleaning up after removing the springs I noticed considerable movement where these are in place. Is this the place there seems to be questions about how to repair? It it going to be a problem to replace them, other than getting caster/camber (whichever) back where it goes? Should I disassemble the bottom joint, too?


[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Bothcars3.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State Sedan (Under Construction)
'60 Lark VI (Sold, delivery in early Jan.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

[tbredehoft]

Which kingpin kit, major or minor, should I order? how do I tell? By the way, the car has not rolled yet in my possession, ease of steering cannot be compared. It slid on and off the roll back.

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State sedan (under construction)
'60 Lark VI (Sold, still on premises)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana Cars.

[gordr]

Tom, that's your upper outer trunnion and bushings. There are two bushings, although only one has been circled. The other rings are rubber grease/dust seals.

The only movement you should normally have on this joint is rotation around the axis of the trunnion. Wobble, radial play, or axial play are bad news.

Being as this is a car you have never driven, I think it would be a safe assumption that if the upper trunnions are worn, there will be wear elsewhere in the front end, too. Maybe the car didn't get greased adequately.

Jerry, when I read Tom's original question, I asked myself WHY would one want to remove that part? And then I responded with what I consider to be the easiest way to service that area of the car. As far as safety reminders go, it doesn't hurt to belabor that point a bit. Remember, sometimes these threads are read by people who ARE very green.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[Studeman]

Since you are this far... the "might-as-wells" need to take over...
Replace the inner Control-Arm bushings- Rubber or Delrin- your call (don't wish to start an argument)
Now that it's apart, I can't tell you how to check your kingpins for play in the upper-bushing/ lower needle-bearing/thrust bearing....so I'd get the major KP kit.
Put in new springs- Fairborn Stude has a new Progressive-rate spring available- I have used 4-5 sets so far, and are happy with them.
Clean everything with cheap dollar-store OVEN CLEANER. Rinse-DRY-and repeat (the cleaner is nuetralized by H2O).. OR your parts washer. If you have a bead-blaster...use it too.
Replace the UPPER OUTER TRUNIONS (circled)... They are almost always worn out. After removal- if you see any variation in thread-height, OR...if you screw the bushing back on 3/4 of the way- and it still wobbles- REPLACE THEM. The lowers aren't as easily worn- but they still may need replaced.. be SURE to use this tool when replacing the trunions, you may purchase one from studebakerparts.com

Leave 1202-34 alone....
Be sure to clean all MOUNTING bolt threads- and be sure they are DRY for reassembly- Use Locktite (red)on ALL inner shaft retaining bolts.

Ray <--got the pics...need to write the webpage...when I have time...yeah right!!!






Specializing in Studebaker Restoration

[tbredehoft]

Thanks, Ray, between you and the shop manual, I think I can do it.

Any bets whether the web page is done before my front end?

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'55 President State sedan (under construction)
'60 Lark VI (Sold, still on premises)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana Cars.

[N8N]

more notes on these bolts/nuts...

I like to use air tools, make things much easier. I take a socket and breaker bar to hold the bolt heads, you may need to take a 6 point socket and grind down the O.D. a little to sneak it into the channel in the crossmember. On a car this old, take all your 12 point sockets and hide them away in a drawer somewhere so you're not tempted to use them; 6 points are a little harder to work with but are the only way to go when busting old, rusty fasteners. I only keep them around for tight situations and 12 point fasteners like ARP rod nuts. JDP likes to drill a hole in each flange of the crossmember to let oil/coolant/rainwater/road goo drain out of there, not a bad idea unless you have a concours quality restoration - I'm sure you scraped away quite an accumulation of muck there before you started, as the crossmember is nearly directly below the front main seal.

I'm assuming you're getting new bolts and nuts given your description; make sure you get Grade 5 or Grade 8, no unhardened Chinese junk! I hope you saved the special flat washers under the nuts, those are supposedly hardened and ground flat. There were issues with these bolts loosening up in use, and the washers were supposedly the factory's fix. Also you should use lock nuts, not lock washers. I used Grade 8 bolts and all-metal lock nuts when I redid my car; unfortunately the special washers were long gone but I did find some Grade 8 flat washers which I used. I haven't gotten enough miles to see if that's an acceptable substitute or not.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[wagone]

Is it necessary or advisable to use spring compressors when doing front end work on our favorite bottomless holes (for hiding money--never to be retrieved)? And can they readily fit up inside the springs? How about threaded rod and nuts? If the valve on your floor jack is good and the lower a-arm can be thus lowered GENTLY is it then advisable to remove the springs without a safety device? I don't think Gordr adressed this. A flying spring (when the energy is suddenly released) is DEADLY if it hits you in the head.[xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]

wagone

[Jerry Forrester]

quote:Originally posted by wagone

Is it necessary or advisable to use spring compressors when doing front end work on our favorite bottomless holes (for hiding money--never to be retrieved)? And can they readily fit up inside the springs? How about threaded rod and nuts? If the valve on your floor jack is good and the lower a-arm can be thus lowered GENTLY is it then advisable to remove the springs without a safety device? I don't think Gordr adressed this. A flying spring (when the energy is suddenly released) is DEADLY if it hits you in the head.[xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]

wagone

I use a chain as my safty device.

Jerry Forrester
Douglasville, Georgia
Be sure to check out my eBay store
http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_
for your shiny Stude stuff

More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu