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Overdrive question

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  • Transmission: Overdrive question

    Working on a 49 Champion business coupe 3 speed overdrive. My problem is I can't shift it in reverse with the overdrive engaged . I'm hearing the solinoid pulling in when I turn on the ignition. If I turn off the ignition, it will allow me to put it in reverse . Is the solinoid hounded ( shorted)?

  • #2
    Possibly the governor points are shorted. Their usual failure mode is to open up, but maybe they are shorted.

    More likely, the wire to the governor has some bad insulation and is shorting to the transmission or the frame somewhere.

    There is a great pictorial overdrive wiring diagram in the shop manual.

    The governor tells the transmission when the car is going fast enough to engage. Overdrive then engages when the driver's foot comes off the throttle. The governor is at the drive shaft end of the transmission back by where the speedometer cable comes in.
    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

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    • #3
      The transmission will lock up in reverse if overdrive is engaged overdrive only works in foreward.
      Hawkowner

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      • #4
        The overdrive has to be disengaged for reverse. ie pull the lever out.

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        • #5
          The overdrive cable won't move when it's running

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          • #6
            Wiring is all good.

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            • #7
              Running or driving? You can't pull the handle out while driving if overdrive is engaged.
              Howard - Los Angeles chapter SDC
              '53 Commander Starliner (Finally running and driving, but still in process)
              '56 Golden Hawk (3 speed/overdrive, Power steering - Running, but not yet driving)
              '62 GT Hawk (4 speed, A/C, Power steering - running and DRIVING!)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by altair View Post
                The overdrive has to be disengaged for reverse. ie pull the lever out.
                No! That is not correct. That is one of the fallacies that keeps getting propagated by folks who do not understand how overdrive functions.

                Putting the shift lever into reverse moves a rod inside the transmission that AUTOMATICALLY disengages the over drive, both electrically and mechanically. You do NOT need to pull the handle out to go into reverse.

                It is true that you cannot go into reverse if the car is going forward at a speed in excess of 25 miles per hour and the overdrive is engaged, but who in the world would try to do that? And that would be true for a non-overdrive transmission anyway.
                Last edited by RadioRoy; 03-09-2017, 08:27 PM.
                RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                Comment


                • #9
                  (quote) The overdrive cable won't move when it's running (end quote)

                  If by that you mean when the engine is running, that tells you the the overdrive is engaging electrically as soon as the ignition is turned on.

                  That means that either
                  -the governor is shorted or
                  -the wiring to the governor is shorted, or
                  -the solenoid is jammed in the extended position (unlikely).
                  -the overdrive relay points are stuck closed

                  The governor wiring goes all the way up to the kick down switch, so there is a long run and it could be shorted anywhere.
                  Last edited by RadioRoy; 03-09-2017, 11:45 PM.
                  RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                  17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                  10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                  10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                  4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                  5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                  56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                  60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hawkowner View Post
                    The transmission will lock up in reverse if overdrive is engaged...
                    Hawkowner
                    Nope. It does not work that way. Not if I understand what you are saying.
                    RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                    17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                    10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                    10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                    4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                    5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                    56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                    60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here's an easy to follow trouble shooting tree:
                      Click image for larger version

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ID:	1712826click on pics to enlarge and copy

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                      • #12
                        Thanks for your help folks. So Radioroy what I'm hearing is that the governor engages the solinoid. ? The wiring all checks out(new wiring harness) and has been triple checked. My understanding of the governor is that it operates off the shaft speed of the tranny and closes at 28-29 mph.

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                        • #13
                          You can remove the governor wire and see if the overdrive still engages as soon as the key is turned on.
                          If it does, then check for other shorts, as Roy suggested.
                          The governor sends the ground signal (over about 25 MPH), to the relay, which sends voltage to the solenoid.

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                          • #14
                            everybody re-read #8

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                            • #15
                              So I disconnected the governor wire and the solinoid still engages when the ignition is turned on

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