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  • Edelbrock says "do NOT use Edelbrock"

    http://sterkel.org/avanti
    1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
    1999 Toyota rice burner
    1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

    New resolution.
    I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
    challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
    I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

  • #2
    First of all, you will get over 100% volumetric efficiency with a blower. Probably 105-120% depending upon how much boost you run.


    Next, I wouldn't size the carb for 65 MPH. Only half of a 4 barrel would normally be "in" at highway cruise. If you ever got on the loud pedal, you'd be sorely disappointed in the performance of the car. The carb should be sized at or near max rpm and a realistic volumetric efficiency for the engine. (BTW, you would only need about 250 CFM at 3000 RPM and 90% volumetric efficiency, not 450... http://www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_CFM_Calculator.html ...although again that is somewhat of a useless number). The properties of a four barrel with multiple circuits takes care of part throttle operation as well as various loads and speeds.

    Last, YOU DO need a special sealed carb for a pressurized (blow through) system like your Avanti. Not all blowers operate this way, however. Many systems PULL the air through the carb. You wouldn't need a special carb with that type of blower system. I'm sure that others have modified carbs to work on a blow through system, but the easy way out is to get your original one rebuilt.



    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Comment


    • #3
      If you put the carb in the R3 pressure box, it should be fine. That is
      one way to avoid having to modify the carb for better sealing.

      Tom

      '63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires
      '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
      Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
      http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
      I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

      Comment


      • #4
        WOW! does that give you a warm fuzzy feeling that the Techs at Edelbrock really know engines or what?...NOT!! [xx(][xx(][V]

        Even when you explain it to them, they don't get it!! [V][V]

        And even when they have a chance to "SELL" their own product, they don't check it out more thoroughly![V]

        StudeRich
        Studebakers Northwest
        Ferndale, WA
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

        Comment


        • #5
          good catch!
          it should have been 250 CFM not 450 CFM


          Terry, North Texas
          1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
          (in stage 1 resto "Project A")
          http://sterkel.org/avanti
          1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
          1999 Toyota rice burner
          1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

          New resolution.
          I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
          challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
          I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

          Comment


          • #6
            other than the needed correction, see above, none of this makes me itching
            to whip out my checkbook.

            Just one of several head-scratchers...if all it tooks is an airbox that seals the top gasket, why did Edelbrock say NO to my installation without explaining that that was the issue. or is the design/fabrication too sloppy elsewhere?

            and another head-scratcher...well you get the idea, my checkbook is very safe...


            Terry, North Texas
            1963 Avanti R2, 63SR1065
            (in stage 1 resto "Project A")
            http://sterkel.org/avanti
            1985 Kubota L2202(Diesel)
            1999 Toyota rice burner
            1986 Ford 150 Long Bed

            New resolution.
            I will continue to respond, to the best of my ability, to any query,
            challenge or alternative view relevant to my original post.
            I will not respond to anything off (the original) topic...

            Comment


            • #7
              I've been following the Edelbrock threads too, thinking of an eventual upgrade for my R2+ pressure box Avanti. While the box takes care of the sealing issue, I presume you would have to re-use the old mechanical choke, instead of the electric one. To me that takes away some (but not all) of the benefits to changing.

              Given today's lawsuit-happy environment, it is so much easier for a company to say "No" to any application that sounds a bit unusual, especially if something like the fuel system is involved. It may be understandable, but still frustrating.

              It may take longer, but the real-world experience of other Stude people may be the only source of answers to help make a decision.

              Chris Collins
              63 Avanti R-2
              66 Cruiser

              Comment


              • #8
                They told me no also. I moved the R2 top over and used it on 3 R2's so far without a issue.

                JDP/Maryland
                63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
                spent to date $54664,75
                64 R2 GT (Sid)
                spent to date $62,839.60
                63 Lark 2 door
                51 Commander
                39 Coupe express
                39 Coupe express (rod)

                JDP Maryland

                Comment


                • #9
                  It sounded like in the first query Edelbrock expected to hear, and looked up, a draw through setup. They didn't expect to be looking for a carb for a blow through setup. I'd almost want to go back, provide the Studebaker specifications, VE, etc, and ask what they have in a sealed carb for a blow through setup. What throws me is they didn't go look up the sealed carb for the blow through setup. Far as I know their site only provides a few models for this application. I've attempted the sealing and vent redrilling of a 2bbl vented carb, never used it though. That said I prefer the R3 airbox, less fuss, and no need to pull a carb completely apart. I'll vie that you made need the expertise of the Studebaker people. Get a number and then go back to Edelbrock and look it up for your application. Somebody like Harbit, T-Bow, or Myers might have some input .

                  I wonder if the 1806 is the R1 setup, with the external vents? Since they went looking for a draw through where the pressure is under instead of above the carb(blow through), thats why they said the carb wouldn't work without modification.


                  1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                  1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
                  [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
                  [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
                  [img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
                  [img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]
                  1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                  1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                  1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                  1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a Hybrid 1406 on my R2 Avanti. I took JP's idea of the AFB top on the Edelbrock bottom and did a couple of mods that have made the car perform better.

                    One change that would only be necessary with the AFB top installed is the use of the original AFB primary and secondary venturi clusters. The primary clusters of the Edelbrock have shorter vent tubes and rather than being separated from the air stream though the throats they would be exposed to it. I found that once I went to the AFB clusters throttle response and FUEL MILEAGE greatly improved. The secondaries had a slightly different configuration so I changed them also but it may not be critical, the primary change is. Before the change the car needed a larger jet to perform properly.

                    The second change is subtle and easy but helped eliminate a big drop in power at high RPM's. The secondary air flap on the Edelbrock doesn't lay flat like the AFB's. In a naturally aspirated sitiuation this positioning probably helps it open a little quicker. I think in a blow through situation it's angle allows it to be pushed shut or flutter at high RPM and full boost. A little grinding on the counterweight allows the flap to lay flat like the original R2 AFB.

                    The third mod is to make a hard connection on the secondary linkage. Both the AFB and the Edelbrock can benefit from this mod. The secondary plates are not directly connected to the primary. There is a fairly heavy spring that opens the secondaries once the tension from the primary linkage is released and the choke is fully open. If your choke isn't opened all the way the secondary plates on the AFB and the E Carb wont open but the pedal will still go to the floor. I may not be explaining it well but the bottom line is that full boost can overpower the spring pressure and keep the secondaries closed. I tack welded the linkage together although there may be other ways. I noticed an instantaneous change in full throttle performance after I did this.

                    I've spent LOTS of hours making the Hybrid carb work. The Avanti has run a best of 15.097 and gets 22 MPG on the highway with the 3.73's and the 700R4. It doesn't leak ( anymore than the original AFB did, mild seapage after lots of hard driving ), idles smoothly in the hottest weather and responds as crisply as any carbureted car possibly can.

                    My next mod is not to the carb itself but to use an "O" ring for the carb hat rather than a paper gasket to get a better seal and pick up a tiny bit of hood clearance.

                    ErnieR

                    R2 R5388
                    Tack weld at the screwdriver tip.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by bige

                      I have a Hybrid 1406 on my R2 Avanti. I took JP's idea of the AFB top on the Edelbrock bottom and did a couple of mods that have made the car perform better.

                      One change that would only be necessary with the AFB top installed is the use of the original AFB primary and secondary venturi clusters. The primary clusters of the Edelbrock have shorter vent tubes and rather than being separated from the air stream though the throats they would be exposed to it. I found that once I went to the AFB clusters throttle response and FUEL MILEAGE greatly improved. The secondaries had a slightly different configuration so I changed them also but it may not be critical, the primary change is. Before the change the car needed a larger jet to perform properly.

                      The second change is subtle and easy but helped eliminate a big drop in power at high RPM's. The secondary air flap on the Edelbrock doesn't lay flat like the AFB's. In a naturally aspirated sitiuation this positioning probably helps it open a little quicker. I think in a blow through situation it's angle allows it to be pushed shut or flutter at high RPM and full boost. A little grinding on the counterweight allows the flap to lay flat like the original R2 AFB.

                      The third mod is to make a hard connection on the secondary linkage. Both the AFB and the Edelbrock can benefit from this mod. The secondary plates are not directly connected to the primary. There is a fairly heavy spring that opens the secondaries once the tension from the primary linkage is released and the choke is fully open. If your choke isn't opened all the way the secondary plates on the AFB and the E Carb wont open but the pedal will still go to the floor. I may not be explaining it well but the bottom line is that full boost can overpower the spring pressure and keep the secondaries closed. I tack welded the linkage together although there may be other ways. I noticed an instantaneous change in full throttle performance after I did this.

                      I've spent LOTS of hours making the Hybrid carb work. The Avanti has run a best of 15.097 and gets 22 MPG on the highway with the 3.73's and the 700R4. It doesn't leak ( anymore than the original AFB did, mild seapage after lots of hard driving ), idles smoothly in the hottest weather and responds as crisply as any carbureted car possibly can.

                      My next mod is not to the carb itself but to use an "O" ring for the carb hat rather than a paper gasket to get a better seal and pick up a tiny bit of hood clearance.

                      ErnieR
                      Nice mods Ernie, but you need another spring.

                      Jerry Forrester
                      Douglasville, Georgia
                      Be sure to check out my eBay store
                      http://stores.ebay.com/CHROME-CHROME-CHROME_
                      for your shiny Stude stuff

                      More pix of Leo the '55 Pres HT here...http://tinyurl.com/2gj6cu
                      Jerry Forrester
                      Forrester's Chrome
                      Douglasville, Georgia

                      See all of Buttercup's pictures at https://imgur.com/a/tBjGzTk

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Please Explain?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You took my basic idea and expanded and improved it. Sort of like I suggested you might want to buy a watch, and you built one. Thanks for all the modifications you explained, I copied them to my notepad.

                          JDP/Maryland
                          63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
                          spent to date $54664,75
                          64 R2 GT (Sid)
                          spent to date $62,839.60
                          63 Lark 2 door
                          51 Commander
                          39 Coupe express
                          39 Coupe express (rod)

                          JDP Maryland

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by bige

                            Please Explain?
                            I think Jerry means throttle return spring. Two is usually a good idea to prevent unintended WOT. Studebaker put the additional one from the throttle bell crank to the valve cover. GM just ran a "spring within a spring".


                            Dick Steinkamp
                            Bellingham, WA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              He has the correct spring, even the color is correct.

                              JDP/Maryland
                              63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
                              spent to date $54664,75
                              64 R2 GT (Sid)
                              spent to date $62,839.60
                              63 Lark 2 door
                              51 Commander
                              39 Coupe express
                              39 Coupe express (rod)

                              JDP Maryland

                              Comment

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