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Celeron? Are You Kidding Me?

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  • Engine: Celeron? Are You Kidding Me?

    Ok. So what's the deal with the Celeron camshaft gear on the '50 flatheads? I noticed in my "box of stuff" that came with the car, a cracked gear that had been removed. Any enlightenment on this curious non metal design feature would be appreciated. Thanks.
    1950 Champion
    1962 MGA

  • #2
    Studebaker used them 'forever' in their engines, except for the later '56 up, HD & truck V8's, and the Avanti 'R' engines where an aluminum gear was used.

    Those celeron (fiber) gears have stood the test of time, usually lasting many, many years before failing!..Also, though not as strong as aluminum, they 'run' more quietly against the steel crankshaft gear!

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    • #3
      Every Studebaker I've ever owned had the celeron gear. Over the course of forty-nine years I have had to replace two.
      "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

      Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
      Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
      '33 Rockne 10,
      '51 Commander Starlight,
      '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
      '56 Sky Hawk

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      • #4
        Celeron was an early synthetic material, probably made .... before oil became the main building block of synthetics.

        Unfortunately, Intel named a processor Celeron some years back. A Google search of Celeron yields thousands of hits, but all concern the Intel processor, so it's difficult to research the material our gears are made from.
        Last edited by RadioRoy; 02-12-2017, 10:14 PM.
        RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

        17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
        10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
        10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
        4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
        5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
        56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
        60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

        Comment


        • #5
          I can say one thing in favor of the Celeron gears, they will outlast a Chrysler (MoPar) Cam Gear with Plastic coated Steel Teeth, about THREE to One!
          StudeRich
          Second Generation Stude Driver,
          Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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          • #6
            Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
            I can say one thing in favor of the Celeron gears, they will outlast a Chrysler (MoPar) Cam Gear with Plastic coated Steel Teeth, about THREE to One!
            Or the same GM gear. Many a GM car has prematurely gone to the boneyard because the cam drive plastic failed and the whole front of the car has to be removed to replace it. Then many of the engines using the plastic crap are interference designs and the cam stops turning before the crankshaft stops and it bends valves on both banks of a V8.

            jack vines
            PackardV8

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            • #7
              My Sister purchased a new 1970 Pontiac Catalina station wagon with the 400 CID V8. She had to replace the cam gear three times in the first 100K miles. So much for that plastic gear setup.
              sigpic1957 Packard Clipper Country Sedan

              "There's nothing stronger than the heart of a volunteer"
              Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle
              "I have a great memory for forgetting things" Number 1 son, Lee Chan

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              • #8
                Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
                I can say one thing in favor of the Celeron gears, they will outlast a Chrysler (MoPar) Cam Gear with Plastic coated Steel Teeth, about THREE to One!


                Just 'cause something is new doesn't mean that it will be better!

                That's why I'm content to remain in the simpler slow but reliable lane…

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                • #9
                  I hear You

                  Originally posted by GrumpyOne View Post
                  Just 'cause something is new doesn't mean that it will be better!

                  That's why I'm content to remain in the simpler slow but reliable lane…
                  Joseph R. Zeiger

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                  • #10
                    My guess would be the "celeron" gears were phenolic resin (phenol-formaldhyde resin) based. The later stuff was probably filled nylon so I don't think one can do a direct comparison.

                    I don't recall a term celeron in this business but it goes back before me. Use Phenolic in the search term and it might help.

                    Bob

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                    • #11
                      I have a Cloyes timing gear (fiber) that makes no mention of Celeron. Wasn't Celeron just a manufactures trade name.
                      American iron, real old school
                      With two tone paint, it sure is cool

                      Its got 8 cylinders and uses them all
                      With an overdrive that just won't stall

                      With a 4 barrel carb and dual exhausts
                      With 4.23 gears it can really get lost

                      Its got safety belts and I ain't scared
                      The brakes are good and the tires are fair.

                      Tried to sell her, but got no taker
                      I"ll just keep driving my Studebaker

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                      • #12
                        Easiest google search would be for "fiber timing gears" everyone used them-even with chains. Material used varied, idea was the same, lower engine noise--till they broke, teeth sheered or pieces fell of and jammed up the works.

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                        • #13
                          Celeron was a trade name for phenolic plastic, like Bakelite, but with a fiber filler. It's a composite material, just like carbon-fiber is today. In its day, it was hgh-tech. "Micarta" is another trade name for a similar products.
                          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                          • #14
                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micarta

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol_formaldehyde_resin

                            Heavy stuff for 1910.
                            RadioRoy, specializing in AM/FM conversions with auxiliary inputs for iPod/satellite/CD player. In the old car radio business since 1985.

                            17A-S2 - 50 Commander convertible
                            10G-C1 - 51 Champion starlight coupe
                            10G-Q4 - 51 Champion business coupe
                            4H-K5 - 53 Commander starliner hardtop
                            5H-D5 - 54 Commander Conestoga wagon
                            56B-D4 - 56 Commander station wagon
                            60V-L6 - 60 Lark convertible

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you want to do an Internet search, you'll get better results with "celoron". That's the true name.
                              sigpic

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