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39 commander brake question

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  • #16
    update...here are a few things I am considering when putting the washers back on the shoes....
    I looked at the spring cup washer again and the inside diameter of the cup (not the hole diameter) is 13/16". The "legs" are just extended springs on the washer...so maybe if we use this 13/16" dimension, this could indeed be the "inner" as the catalog describes.

    Now consider this...normally the shoes are supported in 3 places in order to lay flat against the backing plate. There is a resting "post" at the wheel cylinder for the top of the shoe to lay against and the lower end of the shoe is held (captured) by the eccentric pivot. At the middle where the adjusting eccentric cam is, the is a gap between the cam and the shoe. This gap equals the thickness of the spring cup washer. I think this would be the 3rd point of contact for the shoe if the spring cup washer were here. I believe more and more now the shoes were spring loaded from the underside, instead of the outside as it is so often done on "modern" shoes. So my plan is to put the spring cup washer under the shoe to fill up the gap, and then use washers as needed to fill up the space on the outside...might even use a wave washer there too.

    One more thought, if it were spring loaded from the outside of the shoe like "modern" cars and there was no support between the shoe and the adjuster cam, the spring would put undue side load and friction on the lower pivot....I cant believe it would have been designed like that.

    comments please?

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    • #17
      From the bottom picture of the cupped washer with 3 slight spring legs, I'd think the cup would hole the spring centered, but I can't see where the three slight spring legs could do any good. I haven't seen such a washer before, but I've see lots of the shallow cup washers that hold the spring centered, and I've seen wavy washers that lay against the shoe.

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      • #18
        I have these under p/n 186273, in two different bags. Overall diameter is 1-1/4", and the 'inside diameter' (ie, the 'depression') measures 13/16" so these may be what you are looking for.
        Click image for larger version

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        If they are correct, how many do you need? PM me with your address and I'll put some in an envelope.
        Last edited by r1lark; 12-24-2016, 12:32 PM.
        Paul
        Winston-Salem, NC
        Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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        • #19
          I looked at the 1947-1950 parts book, and it has better illustrations. I've attached an image of the front brakes below. Note that on the '47 thru '50 models the forward shoe and the reverse shoe have a different arrangement of washers, eccentrics, etc. whereas the '39 used the same eccentrics in all eight locations. (FYI, the '47 thru '50 rear brakes have the same arrangement as the fronts did in '47 thru '50, so I didn't try to take a pic of the whole page.) I have also attached a high resolution pic of the page that shows the part numbers for the '47 thru '50 parts, so you can compare to the 1939 parts book to see what part numbers are the same. You should be able to zoom way in on the page with the part numbers.

          Hope this helps, you will have to do some comparison to see what part numbers are the same. and make some assumptions, but hopefully this will help you figure out what goes where on your '39.
          Click image for larger version

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          Click image for larger version

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          Attached Files
          Last edited by r1lark; 12-24-2016, 01:37 PM. Reason: added more info
          Paul
          Winston-Salem, NC
          Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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          • #20
            R1Lark...I think you got me the information I was looking for. Your catalog calls 186273 a spring washer for the eccentric and it does appear to go under the shoe against the cam. This is the same part number for the '39. So now I am convinced it does go under the shoes. Thanks for the offer, but all 8 spring washers are already on the car, just half of them was on the outside of the shoes!!
            For the outer washers, your book does use a different part number but I feel strongly it may just be matter of thickness. My books says 1/16" thick I should be able to come up with these.
            The c-clip is the same part number and I already have these on order because some of them cracked while getting them off.
            Looks like now I have the information needed so the brakes can go back together.
            I want to thank you R1lark and everyone else for your help too.

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            • #21
              I'd be using Gary's picture in #10.
              The self adjusting brakes in #19 are quite different.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by TWChamp View Post
                I'd be using Gary's picture in #10.
                The self adjusting brakes in #19 are quite different.
                I thought I was pretty clear in the text in #19 that the '47 thru '50 versions had some differences from '39, but with a comparison of part numbers and some assumptions the OP could figure out where the spring washer p/n 186273 would go on his '39. This was his primary concern. Guess I wasn't so clear, huh?
                Paul
                Winston-Salem, NC
                Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com

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                • #23
                  Note the difference in the amount of lining on the shoes which will have an effect on the stopping power. The illustration shows both lower ends of the shoe anchored . The more modern duo survo brake systems allow the bottom ends of the shoes to float which causes the front shoe to rotate and put more force on the back shoe using the energy of the turning wheel to apply the brake.
                  Hawkowner

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                  • #24
                    TWchamp....I think the picture in 10 has the spring cup washers, but they are behind the shoe and you cant see them. The smaller diameter washer on the outside would be the 1/16" thick flat washer. The fact that the 47-50 has this spring cup washer (same part number too) and it is used behind the shoe tells me mine should be behind the shoe as well.
                    The 1/16" thick flatwasher took up the space quite well and the spring legs still flex when pushed down. I feel I have it correct now.

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                    • #25
                      ok all, just checking to make sure....on the rear brakes ,....39 commander...the shorter shoe goes to the rear because the anchor pin is on the bottom? The stepped diameter wheel cylinder has no impact on shoe placement...correct?
                      Front brakes had equal length lining...so no issue here, but rear brakes has different length.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by fh4ever View Post
                        ok all, just checking to make sure....on the rear brakes ,....39 commander...the shorter shoe goes to the rear because the anchor pin is on the bottom? The stepped diameter wheel cylinder has no impact on shoe placement...correct?
                        Front brakes had equal length lining...so no issue here, but rear brakes has different length.
                        Follow Gary's picture in #10.
                        I'd say the smaller cylinder piston on the rear is the reason for the shorter shoe to be on the rear, in addition to the anchor pin being at the bottom.

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                        • #27
                          Thanks ...just wanted to make sure. Everything I ever worked on had it the opposite way.... but then again, the anchor pin was on top.

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                          • #28
                            On my 39 Commander there are little air holes at the top of the axle housing just inside the backing plate. Grease comes out there before it pushes through the seal.
                            39 Commander Sedan
                            2nd and 4th Owner
                            58k original miles, numbers matching

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                            • #29
                              thanks commander 226...I already have the rear end all sorted out. After a good clean up, I found that hole, the old grease in the hole came out like a toothpick. It struck me the hole was on top but i guess with grease in the hole, there is no way water can seep in.

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                              • #30
                                Hi guys! I’m trying to hook up front break lines on my 38 Commander. There are no diagrams available anywhere… I’m assuming I run one line from the master cylinder since there’s only two to the front and I do a Y connector between the front two brakes into the one line is that correct? I am also looking for a good place to run the brake lines so they don’t get messed up… Any pictures of front brake lines to master cylinder would be very much appreciated !!
                                Pastor Matt Crump
                                pastormattcrump@gmail.comsigpic

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