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**Pete R** · 12-27-2007, 11:44 AM

I could be wrong, but after taking a closer look, I think the neoprene seal material was assembled backwards in its metal retainer. I used pliers to pull the neoprene out of the seal that I had previously damaged. Then I turned it around and reinstalled it (with some difficulty). Now the taper on the neoprene is such that the seal will slide right on over the seal shoulder on the spindle, rather than getting hung up on it and/or damaged. All four brand new seals that I have are assembled the same way, but I'm not sure that makes them right. I think the factory made a mistake in the way they assembled (or are assembling) these seals. That's my theory.

Pete R
Woodbridge, VA
1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe, 3-speed w/OD
1964 Studebaker Avanti R2, 4-speed (R4399)
1974 Avanti II
1972 Chevrolet El Camino SS454, 4-speed
1999 Corvette roadster, 6-speed

**DEEPNHOCK** · 12-27-2007, 01:38 PM

I doubt that.
If, when installed, the seal lip faces outward on the shaft, any lube pumped in (or hand packed)
will come out rather easily (and onto the brake surface indirectly).
Seals are inclusion, or exclusion (or both if dual lip).
If you have changed the lip so the retainer cup is facing in and the lip is facing out, then that is contrary to how the seal was designed.
The seal retainer cup is the mount for the seal lip and it should not matter whether the cavity is in or out as long as the lip is properly oriented on the shaft.
Ask to see a handbook of seals at your flaps and find out which way your seal should be installed.
Greased up brakes, or burned up bearings should not be allowed in your Studebaker future.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Pete R

I could be wrong, but after taking a closer look, I think the neoprene seal material was assembled backwards in its metal retainer. I used pliers to pull the neoprene out of the seal that I had previously damaged. Then I turned it around and reinstalled it (with some difficulty). Now the taper on the neoprene is such that the seal will slide right on over the seal shoulder on the spindle, rather than getting hung up on it and/or damaged. All four brand new seals that I have are assembled the same way, but I'm not sure that makes them right. I think the factory made a mistake in the way they assembled (or are assembling) these seals. That's my theory.

Pete R
Woodbridge, VA
1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe, 3-speed w/OD
1964 Studebaker Avanti R2, 4-speed (R4399)
1974 Avanti II
1972 Chevrolet El Camino SS454, 4-speed
1999 Corvette roadster, 6-speed

Deep-N-Hock Acres
Brooklet, Georgia
DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project: Ist Gen Owner - project)
Mysterious Project Z
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

**leyrret** · 12-27-2007, 01:44 PM

Seals can have lip facing either direction in relation to smooth metal side. Ignore metal part of seal and install with lip in toward drum.
It should fit either way.

**Pete R** · 12-27-2007, 03:18 PM

The metal part of the seal can't be installed either way. One side is flat; the other side is recessed. The recessed side needs to face the wheel bearing because when the seal is fully seated in the hub, the bearing protrudes into the recess. If you installed it flat side toward the bearing, it would not install all the way and it would interfere with the bearing. So, installed with flat metal side out and recessed side toward the bearing, the seal lip is facing away from the hub cavity. It seems we all agree that this is not the direction in which the seal should face. So it still seems there is something wrong with these seals.

**dpson** · 12-27-2007, 03:45 PM

In my less than expert opinion the seal should be installed with the flat metal surface of the seal facing up and as you look through it the rubber insert should have a conical shape the gets smaller as it goes into the hub (just like looking down a cone). This should allow the seal to slide over the shoulder of the spindle. I always apply a light coating of grease to the the seal lip and the spindle shoulder to help the seal slide onto the spindle. With a new seal it may take a little push to get it on the first time. If during intallation the drum wasn't square with the spindle it's possible that the seal may have gotten wedged and thus damaged.

In that wheel bearings are packed prior to installation there shouldn't be a lot of pressure on the seal, however as the drum heats up during braking the grease will soften and be more apt to run past a poor seal. Be sure to remove all the paraffin based grease and replace it with modern wheel bearing grease.

Dan Peterson
Montpelier, VT
1960 Lark V-8 Convertible
1960 Lark V-8 Convertible (parts car)
1961 Lark Crusier
1962 Lark V-8 Regal Convertible

**Dick Steinkamp** · 12-27-2007, 04:02 PM

quote:Originally posted by Pete R
I think the factory made a mistake in the way they assembled (or are assembling) these seals. That's my theory.

I agree with Pete. I believe the seals you buy today for 51 and up Studebakers are assembled backwards.

**StudeRich** · 12-28-2007, 12:11 AM

Apparently someone at National and or Chicago Rawhide (CR) in the 1990's got the bright idea to upgrade these old felt Studebaker seals to the new nitride or neoprene material and in doing so, forgot which way they are supposed to face. Whoever did it first we may never know, but all of the brands that followed, matched those incorrect ones.

I tried putting the seal case in correctly (flat side out) with the lips of the seals facing out of the drum, when carefully centered but forced onto the spindle backwards the lip seals tear and bind up the drum so when you spin the wheel on the jackstands and it stops, it will have wound up the torn rubber like a spring and reverse direction! IF the bearings do not grind on the seal case, they will work with the seal case backwards.

They never had to worry about which way the felt went into the case, because it was straight cut and could go either way!

quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

quote:Originally posted by Pete R
I think the factory made a mistake in the way they assembled (or are assembling) these seals. That's my theory.

I agree with Pete. I believe the seals you buy today for 51 and up Studebakers are assembled backwards.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

**leyrret** · 12-28-2007, 01:42 AM

quote:Originally posted by Pete R

The metal part of the seal can't be installed either way. One side is flat; the other side is recessed. The recessed side needs to face the wheel bearing because when the seal is fully seated in the hub, the bearing protrudes into the recess.

This is not necessarily true in all cases. You will find with
most the bearing is beyond the seal. It's unlikely that these were asembled backwards, though anything is possible. This may be a seal whose base or primary application is a situation that requires lip
to face other way. I've see seals with lips in both directions.
What number are the seals you are using? Will check it out.

**Dick Steinkamp** · 12-28-2007, 06:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich
IF the bearings do not grind on the seal case, they will work with the seal case backwards.

In order to install the available 51 and up seals with the lip correct (pointing towards the bearings), the seal has to be installed with the flat side also towards the bearings...opposite of any other front wheel seal I have used. I have not had any problems with so doing, however.

**DEEPNHOCK** · 12-28-2007, 06:41 AM

Couple of comments (both swag's)
Since the seal manufacturer's make thousands and thousands of different seals for different applications (and only a few of them automotive)...
They will always look for a way to reduce inventory and manufacturing cost's.
If they can substitute another number in their existing inventory that will work in a particular application...and it will allow them to kill off an SKU... The old number is gone....
Perhaps that is what has happened in this case.
They probably had another nitrile rubber seal that would fit the hole and the shaft and they went with it.
Your synopsis sounds completely plausible.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Apparently someone at National and or Chicago Rawhide (CR) in the 1990's got the bright idea to upgrade these old felt Studebaker seals to the new nitride or neoprene material and in doing so, forgot which way they are supposed to face. Whoever did it first we may never know, but all of the brands that followed, matched those incorrect ones.
<snip>

**Pete R** · 12-31-2007, 04:22 AM

The grease seal I'm using is Stude Int'l #GRS002. Yesterday I took off the right side drum to check its seal and found it was damaged, too, just like the left side seal. The damage occurs on installation when part of the seal catches on the edge of the seal shoulder on the spindle and bends backwards; the other part of the seal goes on without bending backwards. So you end up with a twisted lip. Upon removal, the seal is permanently deformed and is not reusable. I'm going to write Stude Int'l about the problem.

Pete R
Woodbridge, VA
1954 Studebaker Commander Regal Starlight Coupe, 3-speed w/OD
1964 Studebaker Avanti R2, 4-speed (R4399)
1974 Avanti II
1972 Chevrolet El Camino SS454, 4-speed
1999 Corvette roadster, 6-speed

**53k** · 07-04-2008, 04:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by hotwheels63r2

The seals ARE assembled backwards. I have contacted several sources and never got the problem fixed. There may be a new run someday, but do not know when?
If the original seals can be saved from here on out, try to save them. I do have stock on real ones if you dont find any Pete. Make a note guys: the seal only fits part of the time, if you drop in in what looks like the wrong way. On a D/Brake car-forget it, they simply do not fit.

I ordered a set of seals from Myer's Studebaker and they were assembled correctly. Maybe Jon caught the problem.

[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)

**53k** · 07-11-2008, 05:00 PM

Today I picked up a set of wheel bearings and grease seals to carry as spares (since my recent roadside bearing failure). I got them from my FLAPS, a CarQuest store. The bearing sets were Timken A-2 and A-6 sets (in CarQuest boxes). The big surprise was the seals (also in CarQuest boxes with part number 205017 printed on them). They were the old felt seal type (no problem with being installed backwards like the neoprene ones

.)
The reason I like this place is they were some years ago an independent parts store. Later, they became a Big A store and then more recently a CarQuest store. As an independent and a Big A they carried all kinds of old car stuff. When they went CarQuest, CarQuest depot people came in and absolutely cleared out eveything and replaced all parts with CarQuest items. We lost a lot of good stuff, but the same guys are still there and they kept their old books. I didn't have the seal number with me so my good guy goes over to a tattered old yellowed catalog, opens it to Studebaker and came up with the number. He called the CarQuest warehouse and they had them. They were there first thing the next morning and they don't require pre-payment.

Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)

**N8N** · 07-12-2008, 08:36 AM

Paul,

which car is that for? I would like to shamelessly steal that number, if you don't mind.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

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How do I install front grease seals in '51 Stude?

How do I install front grease seals in '51 Stude?

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