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  • "Made in America" - no longer relevant?

    Okay, with the whole Chevy selling Nissan thread going on next door, I thought I'd start a new one on a sort of tangent from that for our Americans on the site. Namely, I'd like to know what your perspective is on "Made in America". What does it mean to you? Why is it important? Is it important? Is it about buying something actually made by an American, or is it about the image, the perception if you will, that you buy American, even if in truth is otherwise?

    I'm a younger person, but even in my few years I have noticed a sharp decline in the, for lack of better term, patriotism toward buying products made in America. When I was a little kid and Wal-Marts were still a chain of big box stores springing up in one-horse towns all over the place, their big kick as a store was "buy American". Sam's Club was the same way. It seems as though the day Sam Walton died though, that went out the window almost instantly.

    Besides the feeling that people don't really care about buying American, there is also the fact that it's difficult to tell if what you are buying is even truly American. Cars are a great example. Every single one of the big three domestic car makers will be offering at least one vehicle next year that was designed, engineered, and built outside of our borders.Heck, Chrysler's been owned by so many foreign car makers I'm not even sure what country their current owner lives in, and that's a company whose Mopar hemi was seen as a status symbol of Americana right alongside apple pie and baseball.

    Cars aren't the only companies doing that though. Look in every other industry and you'll see it too. The late Steve Jobs of Apple, a company who used to pride themselves on making everything in the US, pointed a finger at Obama and said "Those jobs aren't coming back" when he was asked what could be done to bring computer building jobs back to the US. Much of what we use today, even though it has an American brand name, is being built overseas and shipped to us.

    Then lastly there's the uncomfortable truth about quality. Growing up, I was told that we buy American because it's quality. Americans are the craftsmen of the world. But that's rapidly changing. With every generation, American craftsmen are losing their edge, while craftsmen abroad are making astonishing strides. Some of the longest lasting engines in cars today come from other nations. I knew a guy who put half a million miles on a Honda Accord, and the car was still running like a top. Compared to my old Reliant K from almost the same year that barely survived 150,000, that's impressive.

    So, what is the kick behind buying American anymore? Is it still even possible? I would consider myself as patriotic, if not more so, than most people, but I've got to admit, it's a difficult task. Maybe that's why I drive a Studebaker. Those were simpler times, and that car was American, through and through.

    Thoughts?
    '63 Lark Custom, 259 v8, auto, child seat

    "Your friendly neighborhood Studebaker evangelist"

  • #2
    For many people the answer is simple. They want the least expensive product regardless of where it is made.
    Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

    40 Champion 4 door*
    50 Champion 2 door*
    53 Commander K Auto*
    53 Commander K overdrive*
    55 President Speedster
    62 GT 4Speed*
    63 Avanti R1*
    64 Champ 1/2 ton

    * Formerly owned

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ddub View Post
      For many people the answer is simple. They want the least expensive product regardless of where it is made.
      Unfortunately, you get what you pay for..

      The metal in foreign China rotors is crap. I hunt down OEM rotors with Canadian or USA marking and get them turned and zinc plated.
      Its kind of apocalyptic as I hunt down made in the USA parts from salvage yards.. My restore, is 99% USA made.. It did mater to me..

      Funny, but no one figures the cost of replacing the "Cheap" part 5 times because the quality is not there..

      I work in the Tech world. My boss thinks I'm better at fixing the mess made by a foreign programmer than actually doing it right the first time.

      Crazy..

      Comment


      • #4
        For some of us, YES, it means everything. We love our country. We are proud to be Americans. We care deeply about the well-being of our economy, and our fellow Americans and their job prospects. We do NOT care about companies from countries where they could not care less about the American economy, or way of life, or prosperity- except to the extent that they can make a profit from same. We ESPECIALLY do not care to support brand names from countries who not only do not care about American ideals, but have a history of arrogantly insulting Americans, including thinking they can conquer America with cowardly sneak attacks. We're the forgive but not forget type: if a dog bites you you forgive the dog, but you don't put yourself in a position to get bit again. Even when the dog throws us an occasional bone in the form of a fake smile and occasional factory.


        Reality is that there are many products we want/need but are not American made; and most that are have some foreign content. There's nothing we can do about that. But those of us that think America IS still relevant, and hold out hope for a Renaissance, are not willing to claim to be patriotic, yet be seen in a vehicle with a non-American brand name.

        It's not a perfect solution, but nobody is. All one can do is the best one can. We can't fix the world, but we can develop principles. But, principles are meaningless unless we live them. That's why some of us try as best we can to 'buy American'. Even when those that don't care to have principles come against us. When I stand before my Maker, I will at least have this much.

        So yes- there are still plenty of us to whom "Made in America" is still very much relevant.
        Proud NON-CASO

        I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

        If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

        GOD BLESS AMERICA

        Ephesians 6:10-17
        Romans 15:13
        Deuteronomy 31:6
        Proverbs 28:1

        Illegitimi non carborundum

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        • #5
          It's still important. But as mentioned, it's hard to tell where something is made, or where an items components are made. My Dodge was made in Illinois, but not everything on the car is domestic. I buy Pop-Tarts because they are made in Battle Creek, MI. The box on the generic pastries at Wal-Mart simply says 'packaged' in the USA. I dare you to find a pair of Levi's that say they were made here. I'll pay a little more for a USA product than a foreign one.
          Tom - Bradenton, FL

          1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
          1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

          Comment


          • #6
            As a whole, an entire generation of factory workers told their kids in the atomic age how they didn't want them to slave away in the drudgery of a dimly lit plant, often building goods they couldn't afford to buy. And everyone from school counsellors to teachers, to your family doctor saying 'its bad for your health' to be in one position all day convinced the next generation to attend university and elevate themselves to a 'better' position than their dad. It was considered a lot more desirable to work in a well-lit air-conditioned office than slaving in a too hot/too cold factory with the constant noise, and then be able to go out and buy the high-end goods mom & dad only wished for. Sorry, we can only blame US for unglamorizing America's assembly lines, foundries and mines as a 'lower class' line of work.

            Craig
            Last edited by 8E45E; 05-16-2013, 05:10 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Swifster View Post
              It's still important. I'll pay a little more for a USA product than a foreign one.
              So will Toby Keith's Dad, Tom. One of the reasons I'm first in line to buy the newest Toby Keith CD when it comes out:

              REMASTERED IN HD!Get Toby’s latest release here:http://smarturl.it/AllTobyKeith Subscribe here:https://goo.gl/ydEfi3 Follow Toby Keith:https://www.facebook.c...


              I don't know if that is Toby's father featured prominently in most of the early photos in that video. His Dad was blinded in one eye in an Army training exercise of some kind. The fellow in the video appears to have a "lazy" eye, so that may be Toby's Dad.

              Good topic and good thoughts, Jim and others. BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Before you rush out to buy that Toby Keith CD, you might want to take a close look at the guitar he plays...

                Seriously, though, we're in a global economy. Lines are blurred. All the major US auto manufacturers are world-wide conglomerates. Parts come from everywhere. So if you live next door to the Toyota plant employing your friends and neighbors do you buy a Ford product made in Mexico just because the label is traditionally American? Can you be a patriotic Mopar fan knowing that company's now owned by Fiat?

                I don't have answers, just a lot of questions.
                Dave Nevin
                Corvallis, OR
                1953 Champion Deluxe Coupe
                Stud-e-venture blog

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'd just like to comment on the perception of parts quality of american made components vs offshore components. I've been in the engine parts business for over 20 years, so I think I'm pretty well qualified on this subject. I've been in piston plants in the USA, Europe, and all over Asia. There are some OE piston factories both in China and India that are in evey way as state of the art as any piston plant in the USA. Now, on the flip side, there are some very poor piston plants overseas, and these are the suppliers to some of the low cost aftermarket parts advertisers that you see. Same with things like brake rotors. The Chinese brake rotor factory that supplies to the Chinese Buick factory is not the plant supplying rotors to places like Pep Boys. There is a market for $15.00 brake rotors, and the Pep Boys of the world fill that need. I just wanted to point out that not all overseas products are "junk".
                  Steve
                  Buckeye, Arizona

                  1960 Hawk R2 4 speed project

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                  • #10
                    I had to return to college when I was 35 to update my credential. In a Humanities class one of the instructors stated, "Your parents and grandparents made damn sure they were well taken care of when they get/got old." He as speaking of retirement, social security, medicare etc. - and through unions, high wages. All those things made the labor cost in the US rise.

                    Today we competed with an educated (primarily USA educated) global market. It seems we basically sold our intelligence and slaked our craftsmanship thinking the rest of the world was too dumb and lazy to catch up. We were wrong. We now have highly educated foreigners maximizing cheap labor all to our detriment.

                    The other side of the coin is we also have cheap goods that enhance our lives. I live very near the Harbor Freight main warehouse. They have two stores within 10 miles of my home. When I need a tool that I'll use once, maybe twice in my lifetime the temptation is too great to not buy their $9.99 item over a $24.99 US made product. The temptation becomes even greater when they have parking lot sales. I've gotten 60 gallon compressors for $80 ($469). Their mini lathe for $100 ($599). A motorized drain cleaner for $45 ($269). All near new, fully functional, returned items. They suit me well for a hobbyist, but I would not recommend them for the professional.

                    So, do these items do a disservice to our country? Frankly I wouldn't have the volume and variety of tools I have if I didn't buy Harbor Freight. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bought an American item simply because of its cost. Sadly I am finding that American brands are now repackaging foreign made items. It seems their hope is that the consumer will pay more for the American "sounding" product even if it is identical to the lesser cost foreign named product.

                    Lastly I was able to attend the Haas open house recently. They are an American CNC machine manufacture. From what I was told their castings come from overseas. I don't doubt that environmental issues have significantly reduced the manufacturing of such products here. Maybe 100+ years down the road China will have numerous healthcare costs that will no longer make then competitive labor wise.

                    In the end it seems that if you responsibly manufacture a decent product, paying a decent wage and charging a fair price it is the appropriate thing to do. Unfortunately greed typically prevents that from happening.

                    Tom
                    '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wittsend View Post
                      Lastly I was able to attend the Haas open house recently. They are an American CNC machine manufacture. From what I was told their castings come from overseas. I don't doubt that environmental issues have significantly reduced the manufacturing of such products here. Maybe 100+ years down the road China will have numerous healthcare costs that will no longer make then competitive labor wise.

                      In the end it seems that if you responsibly manufacture a decent product, paying a decent wage and charging a fair price it is the appropriate thing to do. Unfortunately greed typically prevents that from happening.
                      That is the second reason why the old-skool smokestack foundry as we knew it has gone away. The cost of utilities (natural gas) are extremely high as OSHA and EPA require the use of 'good' stuff to make molten metal; unlike overseas where they can still use coal, or an unpurified and unstable gas as long as it melts the iron which is not allowed here for obviuos reasons.

                      I did mention before in a different thread how many components are cast in other countries, but the final machining is done here. http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...hlight=bauxite

                      Craig
                      Last edited by 8E45E; 05-16-2013, 02:18 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Nebraska to China

                        The 2 items I sell, the automatic wire strippers and the magic cards, are made in ChinaChinaAmerica

                        Germany for slave labor. Probably never patented. The Nazis had lots of slaves doing war work and needed something that ANYONE could operate. So blame THEM for the strippers. The Chinese just copied it.

                        Hull



                        John

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                        • #13
                          I was just at a meeting today where the speaker talked about economic drivers. She said that from the founding of our country until about 1920 (when more people lived in the cities than in the rural areas combined) we were an agrarian society. At that point we became an industrialized nation, and starting around WWII and past became the world leader. Then towards the end of the last century our economy became information based.

                          This doesn't mean that we don't have agriculture, or that we don't have (or need) industry. Nor does it mean that they aren't important, or that those who perform those roles within our society aren't as valuable to us. They are. It is just that things have changed. Perhaps we should embrace it. Maybe, as a poster said above, we don't want our children to have to work in a dirty factory--we want better things for them. I know my father who worked in a cast iron foundry did; even though I thought the work he did was really cool!
                          Dave Nevin
                          Corvallis, OR
                          1953 Champion Deluxe Coupe
                          Stud-e-venture blog

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                          • #14
                            You've tapped into a similar vein in me. But I don't believe American factory workers have altogether lost their pride and abilities. My bookmarks contain several "Made in America" search engines and hot links. I am an RN and even wear Made in USA scrubs (made in Waco by Banana Scrubs--spread the word to nurses you know). I'm going to buy a new grill in the next week, and I'm damned if I'll buy a Weber Spirit series. Weber likes to posit itself as an American company, but much of their line is built in China, and even the Genesis series is only assembled in the U.S., their claims notwithstanding. I'll be buying a Huntington Patriot. You don't have to be a spendthrift chump to make intelligent choices that include American-made purchases; you do have to hunt. If anyone wants me to send them my links to "Made in USA" websites, just ask!

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                            • #15
                              Without a sound manufacturing base, our security and our economy will suffer. Manufacturing jobs spin off many other support jobs. They are high-paying, helping build and maintain a solid middle class. We need strong manufacturing. Look at Germany. Their labor force is well paid, but due to an intelligent national industrial policy, companies have incentive to keep factories in Germany.

                              Originally posted by dnevin View Post
                              I was just at a meeting today where the speaker talked about economic drivers. She said that from the founding of our country until about 1920 (when more people lived in the cities than in the rural areas combined) we were an agrarian society. At that point we became an industrialized nation, and starting around WWII and past became the world leader. Then towards the end of the last century our economy became information based.

                              This doesn't mean that we don't have agriculture, or that we don't have (or need) industry. Nor does it mean that they aren't important, or that those who perform those roles within our society aren't as valuable to us. They are. It is just that things have changed. Perhaps we should embrace it. Maybe, as a poster said above, we don't want our children to have to work in a dirty factory--we want better things for them. I know my father who worked in a cast iron foundry did; even though I thought the work he did was really cool!

                              Comment

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