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  • 226K eBay 63 LeMans update

    Remember this one? Listed with a BIN of $4K and sold for $226K!

    Well, it's finished. Owner spent 120K on restoration and now has a car worth well in excess of $1M:



    Here's our thread from 2008. I started a new thread instead of adding to the old because the title had nothing to do with the car, thus making any future search tough:

    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...17129-Holy-cow

    Be sure to look at the other forum links therein.

    I saw that the story was in Performance Pontiac magazine while sorting mail and when I got home I looked online. I had no luck so I checked every book store and magazine rack within a 40-mile radius for the last couple weeks, and apparently no one carries it I went back online figuring I'd have to subscribe just to get that one issue, but this time came upon the article!

    So without further ado, here's the link. You'll be amazed at the process that went into solving the issues during restoration, especially the recreation of the front clip and bumpers. Enjoy!

    http://highperformancepontiac.automo...ans/index.html
    Proud NON-CASO

    I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

    If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

    GOD BLESS AMERICA

    Ephesians 6:10-17
    Romans 15:13
    Deuteronomy 31:6
    Proverbs 28:1

    Illegitimi non carborundum

  • #2
    Thanks for posting Bob

    There has been an active thread on the HAMB with some actual shots of the car as it progressed but this is the first writeup I've seen since it was finished and displayed. Also more detail than I've seen in other places.

    While it seems like an obscene amount of money to spend, As an old drag racer, I'm glad some one did to keep the memory of these cars and the sport as it was alive.

    Bob
    , ,

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, Bob; thanks for the update. 'Nice to see the car done; you always wonder about "the rest of the story" on these things.

      I have a couple things to add to this story that I am sure will be of interest to StudeNuts here on the forum.

      Many of you know we had Ted Harbit's now-R3 1963 Studebaker Lark Custom 2-door, The Stude Tomato, Certified Stock for the 2010 Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race. The Certification Process took place at PSMCDR co-promoter Dan Jensen's shop in Portland MI on Wednesday, September 15, 2010. (We have a complete report on that Certification Process, with photographs in Dan's shop, prepared for an upcoming Turning Wheels. We were going to "run" it in the January 2011 Turning Wheels as part of the 2010 Pure Stock Drags Report, but the report was so large, with 11 Studebakers in competition, that TW Editor Art Unger is "holding" the Certification Report for the February or March 2011 Turning Wheels. So sit tight; it has been written and is coming: We just ran out of room in the January Turning Wheels.)

      Now, you'll note in this Pontiac Tempest report that the restoration was done by Pontiac expert Scott Tiemann, also of Portland MI. Scott Tiemann and Dan Jensen are good friends and fellow Pontiac enthusiasts...so much so that Scott's shop is about a half-mile north of Dan's on the same road, south of Portland. As a matter of fact, while we were having The Tomato Certified Stock, Scott Tiemann stopped by Dan's with an enclosed trailer to pick up a just-restored and painted 1962 Pontiac Catalina body shell, sans front clip and chassis, being transported from Dan's to Scott's for further work. We helped load the Pontiac shell into Scott's trailer, which was easy because it was mounted on dolly-type wheels for shop maneuvering.

      This 1963 Super Duty 421 Tempest was, naturally, a topic of conversation. If you read between the lines of the interesting, thorough report Bob Andrews posted here, the original 421 engine block that came in this race Tempest was not used in the restoration. Like the car's original aluminum front clip, that block was located and accounted for...but the owner "knew what he had" and held out for simply too much money. No figures were disclosed in the course of conversation, but when you consider how much money this guy was spending to buy and restore this Tempest, it was obvious he was willing to spend just about anything to "make it right."

      However, greed reared its ugly head and the guy in possession of the original block just wanted too much money for it. He was politely told to take a hike and the car was restored otherwise; the restorer's best offer, which I understand was ridiculously high, was declined. Personally, I'd say it serves the block's owner right for being so greedy. Who else would pay as much for that block as would the guy trying to restore this car? Greed is not a positive human trait, but I suppose it is the owner's block and if he wants to have that firm a grip on it, so be it.

      Now, on to a part of the article that may have escaped you if you didn't read the whole thing, the section of the article wherein the car's original racer/owner was interviewed. To save your having to find it, here it is, directly from the article:

      A Chat With Stan Antlocer

      With all of the hoopla surrounding the eBay sale of his '63 LeMans race car, Stan Antlocer must have been surprised on several levels. One, that the old LeMans was still largely intact, and two, its eBay auction literally knocked the collector-car world on its ear. We had a chance to catch up with Stan by telephone from his home in Southern California. He had quite a lot to say about it.

      "There are very few people who know that car as well as I do," Stan said. "About the only other guy who would is Ted Henke, who helped me build it back in 1963."

      Stan Antlocer took delivery of the LeMans directly from Pontiac Engineering back in February of 1963. Unlike some of the other SD cars in that series, this LeMans was delivered with standard production tires, not the 10-inch M&H slicks. "I ran out of gas about 8 miles or so from Pontiac Engineering," Stan recalled. "The gas tank had been cut in half to clear the PowerShift transaxle and had very little capacity."

      Though the LeMans showed a lot of promise, it didn't run as well as Stan had hoped. The engine had been blueprinted after they received it, and during initial testing, they found that the Pontiac was hard-pressed to even dip into the mid 12s, and it was not an easy car to drive. In order to be competitive, it would need to be a lot quicker.

      "For a 3,200-pound car with that much power, it should have been running a lot better," Stan explained. "Ted asked me, 'Why don't we do what Mickey Thompson did?' That meant, converting the car to a conventional driveline. I contacted Bill Klinger at (Pontiac) Engineering and told him what we wanted to do. He said that was fine, but to be sure to let him know what parts we used in the conversion. That way, he could assign factory part numbers so the car would be NHRA-legal."

      The conversion proved to be a success. Logghe Stamping Company in Fraser, Michigan, set up the '57 rearend with 4.30 gears (compared to the 3.90s in the PowerShift). With a set of 10-inch slicks, the little Pontiac was running consistent low 12s, with a best of 11.87 at 123.95 mph at U.S. 131 in Martin, Michigan. The "World's Fastest Tempest" logo on the rear quarters was certainly earned.


      I'd say there are at least two things we as Studebaker enthusiasts may take from the above:

      1. Note that Pontiac Engineering was very much "in cahoots" with anybody building one of their race cars, to be sure the car could be raced NHRA legal; "Just let us know what you are doing so we can assign factory part numbers to the parts and make them NHRA-legal." Rarely are we given such honest insight into what we figured was going on anyhow...yet some ill-advised nostalgia drags hobbyists are worried about Studebakers having superchargers!

      2. More important is the Super Duty Tempest's ultimate best performance. I requote:

      "With a set of 10-inch slicks, the little Pontiac was running consistent low 12s, with a best of 11.87 at 123.95 mph at U.S. 131 in Martin, Michigan. The "World's Fastest Tempest" logo on the rear quarters was certainly earned."

      Fair enough. So here we have a full-dress lightweight race Tempest, totally unsuitable for street use with slicks, open headers, sans heater, yadda, yadda, yadda...and it does a best of 11.87 while being "consistently in the low 12s."

      Fast-forward (really fast-forward) to Wednesday, September 29, 2010, at The Muncie [IN] Dragway. During a routine bracket-racing elimination run, 75-year-old Ted Harbit and the 47-year-old Stude Tomato post a 12.203 elapsed time, well within what the subject Pontiac reportedly turned "regularly" as an all-out race car. Yet Ted's little Studebaker did it on street-legal everyday tires with a full, closed exhaust system, ready to pass a street safety inspection as a normal road vehicle in any state having inspection laws.

      And if Ted got home that evening and Mary Ann wanted him to go to the convenience mart in Summitville and buy a gallon of milk, he could have hopped in The Stude Tomato right from the strip and buzzed down to the Tidy Mart and been back before the gallon milk jug broke a sweat of condensation.

      Geeze, those Pontiac guys spent a lot of time and money to go as fast as you could simply order a Studebaker in 1963. BP
      Last edited by BobPalma; 11-29-2010, 12:20 PM.
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        I not-too-long-ago thumbed through that article in the Pontiac magazine on a newsstand. I seem to remember the car was restored as a LeMans, but earlier pictures I think show a Tempest. Is that right? The Tempest had those two vertical round taillights on each side, and the LeMans had the cleaner, horizontal "bar" taillight on each side, low on the body.
        Bill Pressler
        Kent, OH
        (formerly Greenville, PA)
        Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
        Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
        1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
        1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
        All are in Australia now

        Comment


        • #5
          Maybe we should talk about the power to weight ratio on this one?
          Klif
          55 Speedster/Street Machine
          63 Avanti R2
          64 Convertible R1

          Comment


          • #6
            However, greed reared its ugly head and the guy in possession of the original block just wanted too much money for it. He was politely told to take a hike and the car was restored otherwise; the restorer's best offer, which I understand was ridiculously high, was declined. Personally, I'd say it serves the block's owner right for being so greedy. Who else would pay as much for that block as would the guy trying to restore this car? Greed is not a positive human trait, but I suppose it is the owner's block and if he wants to have that firm a grip on it, so be it.


            There can be only one name for this guy: BLOCK-HEAD!
            KURTRUK
            (read it backwards)




            Nothing is politically right which is morally wrong. -A. Lincoln

            Comment


            • #7
              Off Topic

              When I went and clicked on the link to the Performance Pontiac article a pop-up window came up to compare prices on new Pontiacs. Oops! Now when I go back to do it again it says: Webpage not found.
              KURTRUK
              (read it backwards)




              Nothing is politically right which is morally wrong. -A. Lincoln

              Comment


              • #8
                Kurt, I just now tried it and it worked fine for me. I got the pop-up too but clicked on the little 'x' in the corner and it then loaded just fine. Try again maybe?
                Proud NON-CASO

                I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                GOD BLESS AMERICA

                Ephesians 6:10-17
                Romans 15:13
                Deuteronomy 31:6
                Proverbs 28:1

                Illegitimi non carborundum

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kurtruk View Post
                  However, greed reared its ugly head and the guy in possession of the original block just wanted too much money for it. He was politely told to take a hike and the car was restored otherwise; the restorer's best offer, which I understand was ridiculously high, was declined. Personally, I'd say it serves the block's owner right for being so greedy. Who else would pay as much for that block as would the guy trying to restore this car? Greed is not a positive human trait, but I suppose it is the owner's block and if he wants to have that firm a grip on it, so be it.


                  There can be only one name for this guy: BLOCK-HEAD!
                  Also, the story about the front clip was a hoot as well! The guy wanted $50K for the beat-up original fenders and hood. Instead the owner hired someone who made perfect replicas for half that, and the greedy guy was left holding his hand on his you-know-what. In your face, genius
                  Proud NON-CASO

                  I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                  If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                  GOD BLESS AMERICA

                  Ephesians 6:10-17
                  Romans 15:13
                  Deuteronomy 31:6
                  Proverbs 28:1

                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
                    I seem to remember the car was restored as a LeMans, but earlier pictures I think show a Tempest. Is that right? The Tempest had those two vertical round taillights on each side, and the LeMans had the cleaner, horizontal "bar" taillight on each side, low on the body.
                    Bill: Your eyes and memory aren't deceiving you, but are tricking you. If you read the whole article and look at the string of pictures along the bottom of the article's page, here's what washes out:

                    The car was originally built as a LeMans, as verified in the original, period photo in the collection.

                    Then, the original aluminum front clip was removed somewhere along the way. It was replaced with a steel front clip from a base Tempest. Therefore, when offered on e-bay, the decrepit car is shown with a steel Tempest doghouse, the front fender ornament clearly displaying a Tempest script rather than the parallelogram LeMans emblem.

                    Naturally, when they reconfigured the car with an aluminum front end for an accurate restoration, they returned it to LeMans status. (Ironically, if the Tempest doghouse was on there many years, the car may have existed as a "Tempest" longer than a "LeMans!")

                    Now, to further muddy the waters and prove this was really a one-off car from the jump: The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975 states 11 "Tempests" were built with the dual-quad 421 Super Duty engine...but, of course, that would include station wagons. Further, bucket seats were a $134 option, although it doesn't say they were available on the base Tempest coupe. Add the fact that, allegedly, the only 2-door LeMans was a genuine 2-door hardtop; a B-pillar coupe was supposedly not available in the LeMans series.

                    Anyway, they've restored the car as it was shipped and campaigned in 1963, which is the important thing. Trying to make it fit in a neat production slot is like trying to do the same thing with Nelson Bove's 1964 R3 Commander; the factory assembled it, but with what would you compare it? BP
                    We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                    Ayn Rand:
                    "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                    G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                      Trying to make it fit in a neat production slot is like trying to do the same thing with Nelson Bove's 1964 R3 Commander; the factory assembled it, but with what would you compare it? BP
                      The "Whistler"?

                      Craig
                      Last edited by 8E45E; 02-07-2014, 05:15 PM. Reason: The Whistler has been FOUND!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bob, thanks for the details! I do respectfully disagree on one point: there were no hardtops in the Tempest/LeMans series in '63. All coupes had B-pillars. I'm thinking some Buick/Olds compacts of the early '60's could be had in a hardtop, but never a LeMans until the '64 model year.
                        Bill Pressler
                        Kent, OH
                        (formerly Greenville, PA)
                        Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
                        Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
                        1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
                        1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
                        All are in Australia now

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                          Yes, Bob; thanks for the update. 'Nice to see the car done; you always wonder about "the rest of the story" on these things.

                          I have a couple things to add to this story that I am sure will be of interest to StudeNuts here on the forum.

                          Many of you know we had Ted Harbit's now-R3 1963 Studebaker Lark Custom 2-door, The Stude Tomato, Certified Stock for the 2010 Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race. The Certification Process took place at PSMCDR co-promoter Dan Jensen's shop in Portland MI on Wednesday, September 15, 2010. (We have a complete report on that Certification Process, with photographs in Dan's shop, prepared for an upcoming Turning Wheels. We were going to "run" it in the January 2011 Turning Wheels as part of the 2010 Pure Stock Drags Report, but the report was so large, with 11 Studebakers in competition, that TW Editor Art Unger is "holding" the Certification Report for the February or March 2011 Turning Wheels. So sit tight; it has been written and is coming: We just ran out of room in the January Turning Wheels.)

                          Now, you'll note in this Pontiac Tempest report that the restoration was done by Pontiac expert Scott Tiemann, also of Portland MI. Scott Tiemann and Dan Jensen are good friends and fellow Pontiac enthusiasts...so much so that Scott's shop is about a half-mile north of Dan's on the same road, south of Portland. As a matter of fact, while we were having The Tomato Certified Stock, Scott Tiemann stopped by Dan's with an enclosed trailer to pick up a just-restored and painted 1962 Pontiac Catalina body shell, sans front clip and chassis, being transported from Dan's to Scott's for further work. We helped load the Pontiac shell into Scott's trailer, which was easy because it was mounted on dolly-type wheels for shop maneuvering.

                          This 1963 Super Duty 421 Tempest was, naturally, a topic of conversation. If you read between the lines of the interesting, thorough report Bob Andrews posted here, the original 421 engine block that came in this race Tempest was not used in the restoration. Like the car's original aluminum front clip, that block was located and accounted for...but the owner "knew what he had" and held out for simply too much money. No figures were disclosed in the course of conversation, but when you consider how much money this guy was spending to buy and restore this Tempest, it was obvious he was willing to spend just about anything to "make it right."

                          However, greed reared its ugly head and the guy in possession of the original block just wanted too much money for it. He was politely told to take a hike and the car was restored otherwise; the restorer's best offer, which I understand was ridiculously high, was declined. Personally, I'd say it serves the block's owner right for being so greedy. Who else would pay as much for that block as would the guy trying to restore this car? Greed is not a positive human trait, but I suppose it is the owner's block and if he wants to have that firm a grip on it, so be it.

                          Now, on to a part of the article that may have escaped you if you didn't read the whole thing, the section of the article wherein the car's original racer/owner was interviewed. To save your having to find it, here it is, directly from the article:

                          A Chat With Stan Antlocer

                          With all of the hoopla surrounding the eBay sale of his '63 LeMans race car, Stan Antlocer must have been surprised on several levels. One, that the old LeMans was still largely intact, and two, its eBay auction literally knocked the collector-car world on its ear. We had a chance to catch up with Stan by telephone from his home in Southern California. He had quite a lot to say about it.

                          "There are very few people who know that car as well as I do," Stan said. "About the only other guy who would is Ted Henke, who helped me build it back in 1963."

                          Stan Antlocer took delivery of the LeMans directly from Pontiac Engineering back in February of 1963. Unlike some of the other SD cars in that series, this LeMans was delivered with standard production tires, not the 10-inch M&H slicks. "I ran out of gas about 8 miles or so from Pontiac Engineering," Stan recalled. "The gas tank had been cut in half to clear the PowerShift transaxle and had very little capacity."

                          Though the LeMans showed a lot of promise, it didn't run as well as Stan had hoped. The engine had been blueprinted after they received it, and during initial testing, they found that the Pontiac was hard-pressed to even dip into the mid 12s, and it was not an easy car to drive. In order to be competitive, it would need to be a lot quicker.

                          "For a 3,200-pound car with that much power, it should have been running a lot better," Stan explained. "Ted asked me, 'Why don't we do what Mickey Thompson did?' That meant, converting the car to a conventional driveline. I contacted Bill Klinger at (Pontiac) Engineering and told him what we wanted to do. He said that was fine, but to be sure to let him know what parts we used in the conversion. That way, he could assign factory part numbers so the car would be NHRA-legal."

                          The conversion proved to be a success. Logghe Stamping Company in Fraser, Michigan, set up the '57 rearend with 4.30 gears (compared to the 3.90s in the PowerShift). With a set of 10-inch slicks, the little Pontiac was running consistent low 12s, with a best of 11.87 at 123.95 mph at U.S. 131 in Martin, Michigan. The "World's Fastest Tempest" logo on the rear quarters was certainly earned.


                          I'd say there are at least two things we as Studebaker enthusiasts may take from the above:

                          1. Note that Pontiac Engineering was very much "in cahoots" with anybody building one of their race cars, to be sure the car could be raced NHRA legal; "Just let us know what you are doing so we can assign factory part numbers to the parts and make them NHRA-legal." Rarely are we given such honest insight into what we figured was going on anyhow...yet some ill-advised nostalgia drags hobbyists are worried about Studebakers having superchargers!

                          2. More important is the Super Duty Tempest's ultimate best performance. I requote:

                          "With a set of 10-inch slicks, the little Pontiac was running consistent low 12s, with a best of 11.87 at 123.95 mph at U.S. 131 in Martin, Michigan. The "World's Fastest Tempest" logo on the rear quarters was certainly earned."

                          Fair enough. So here we have a full-dress lightweight race Tempest, totally unsuitable for street use with slicks, open headers, sans heater, yadda, yadda, yadda...and it does a best of 11.87 while being "consistently in the low 12s."

                          Fast-forward (really fast-forward) to Wednesday, September 29, 2010, at The Muncie [IN] Dragway. During a routine bracket-racing elimination run, 75-year-old Ted Harbit and the 47-year-old Stude Tomato post a 12.203 elapsed time, well within what the subject Pontiac reportedly turned "regularly" as an all-out race car. Yet Ted's little Studebaker did it on street-legal everyday tires with a full, closed exhaust system, ready to pass a street safety inspection as a normal road vehicle in any state having inspection laws.

                          And if Ted got home that evening and Mary Ann wanted him to go to the convenience mart in Summitville and buy a gallon of milk, he could have hopped in The Stude Tomato right from the strip and buzzed down to the Tidy Mart and been back before the gallon milk jug broke a sweat of condensation.

                          Geeze, those Pontiac guys spent a lot of time and money to go as fast as you could simply order a Studebaker in 1963. BP



                          Also Bob The Gas was MUCH better back then, not the unleaded crap we have now
                          101st Airborne Div. 326 Engineers Ft Campbell Ky.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
                            Bob, thanks for the details! I do respectfully disagree on one point: there were no hardtops in the Tempest/LeMans series in '63. All coupes had B-pillars. I'm thinking some Buick/Olds compacts of the early '60's could be had in a hardtop, but never a LeMans until the '64 model year.
                            Good point, Biil; you are correct. The Buick Skylark and Oldsmobile Cutlass lines had a true 2-door hardtop (no "B" pillar), but not the Lemans/Pontiac version until 1964. BP
                            We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                            Ayn Rand:
                            "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                            G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm all for preserving/restoring/showing/driving/enjoying historic cars...but the money in this case is byond me.
                              An Indy/Le Mans or a Jim Clark F-1 machine...sure, but an old drag racing Pontiac?

                              I'm glad the greed heads went home empty handed, though.
                              63 Avanti R1 2788
                              1914 Stutz Bearcat
                              (George Barris replica)

                              Washington State

                              Comment

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