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5 Reasons Electric Cars will Disappoint

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  • 5 Reasons Electric Cars will Disappoint

    Here's a well written article from "US News & World Report" on the new trend towards electric cars and some of the obstacles they will face gaining acceptance here in the US.

    http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...ll-disappoint/
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    John
    63R-2386
    Resto-Mod by Michael Myer

  • #2
    Add to that rescue workers. fireman, paramedics, and EMT's....
    They are not electricians.
    Try extricating people when there are big amperages involved.
    Jeff

    Originally posted by okc63avanti View Post
    Here's a well written article from "US News & World Report" on the new trend towards electric cars and some of the obstacles they will face gaining acceptance here in the US.
    HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

    Jeff


    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



    Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

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    • #3
      You would think this would all be obvious to anyone over 10 years old; but somehow it's not. We're still being told they're wonderful...

      My favorite part is that they're supposed to be so wonderful for the environment, yet they plug into the grid, the majority of which is produced by coal-fired plants Geniuses

      Hey, here's a slogan:

      Buy the all new Nissan Leaf, and save a coal miner's job!
      Proud NON-CASO

      I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

      If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

      GOD BLESS AMERICA

      Ephesians 6:10-17
      Romans 15:13
      Deuteronomy 31:6
      Proverbs 28:1

      Illegitimi non carborundum

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      • #4
        Gives a new meaning to 'Turn over a new Leaf', doesn't it?

        Originally posted by Bob Andrews View Post
        <snip>
        Hey, here's a slogan:
        Buy the all new Nissan Leaf, and save a coal miner's job!
        HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

        Jeff


        Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



        Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah :: But look how COOL you can look riding in one !

          Comment


          • #6
            http://theenergycollective.com/glene...id-think-again
            What would a wholesale shift to electric cars do to emissions? Would we just burn more fossil fuels to make electricity? The answer is a resounding no. The reason is the efficiency of the electric drive train. With an internal combustion engine, most of the energy consumed is lost as heat out the tailpipe or in the radiator – as much as 80% is lost. Electric cars are much more efficient, converting much more of the energy in electricity into moving the car, with far less waste heat. Even with burning coal, the reduction in emmissions from gasoline would exceed the increase in emissions from burning coal. And of course with electricity, we have many ways to generate power with less emissions than coal.
            64 Champ long bed V8
            55/53 Studebaker President S/R
            53 Hudson Super Wasp Coupe

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            • #7
              The bottom line is that crude oil will run out one day. More electric cars on the road today means fuel will be available a little bit longer for us "petrol-heads".
              /H

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              • #8
                An article in our paper yesterday explained in pretty good detail the pitfalls of ownership of an electric car for the homeowner. It explained the need for upgraded electrical amperage in the average home costing about $2000 or more, plus the need for a charging station which also will cost about $2000. Trying to charge the car with normal 110 volt amperage could take over 10 hours per charge, and may pop breakers. (I wonder what people who live in rental units will do.)

                As for electric car use extending the life of crude oil, if the 'environmentally friendly' people who buy them continue to buy bottled water, the use of crude to make plastic bottles will probably increase cancelling any benefit.

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                • #9
                  Yes, crude oil will one day run out. But being that that day is anywhere from 80-120 years off, there is no point in trying to hustle the consumer into vehicles that still make zero sense, both practically and financially (and that they don't want) before they're ready.

                  As has worked for the last couple hundred years: make your product and market it. When it makes sense you won't have to pressure people to buy it. If it doesn't sell, you just need to go back to the drawing board. Simple, basic, and proven- yet under serious attack these days
                  Proud NON-CASO

                  I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                  If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                  GOD BLESS AMERICA

                  Ephesians 6:10-17
                  Romans 15:13
                  Deuteronomy 31:6
                  Proverbs 28:1

                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Add to that rescue workers. fireman, paramedics, and EMT's....
                    They are not electricians.
                    Try extricating people when there are big amperages involved.
                    I attended a seminar given by a guy that does training for independant repair shops on hybrid vehicles a couple years ago. He was showing us that they all have a battery disconnect that is well marked. I also believe there are inertia switches that disconnect the high voltage battery during a crash. Probably the issue yet I think is I am not sure these are standardized for all mfgrs as to how they are marked and located. Some rooting on the 'net turned up some manuals put out by the mfg on how to disable the electrical system at the scene of a crash. Probably the emergency rescue folks get training from those.

                    Here is some reading (pdf files)

                    http://www.ase.com/Template.cfm?Sect...tentFileID=621

                    http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi...rhybriderg.pdf

                    My take on all this is these are hear to stay. No, they are not a one size fits all for everybody but have their place. For someone with a short commute they could be ideal. Keep the bigger vehicle for when you really need it and wear the wheels off the econobox for daily commutes. My pickup has 28k on it after 7yrs since I seldom use it as a daily driver.

                    Projects I am imvolved with are all high voltage hybrid stuff. These are series hybrid machines/vehicles so there is no HV battery but all the other elements are there. The goal is improved efficiency and reduced fuel comsumption not to mention performance improvements, etc. Getting rid of expensive to tool transmissions is also a goal.

                    There are advances going on with batteries all the time. I don't think there will be a "break through" any time soon but incremental improvements add up. The IC engine has been around for >100yrs and you cannot compare something from 1895 (or even 1955) to today. Electric and hybrid drivetrains will be the same.

                    The concerns over grid power overloads, etc are sure valid. Also the argument about moving pollution from 1 place to another. I don't like mandates on anything either. Incentives are OK IMO since I can take them or leave them. Rant mode on: Also my take on emissions from engines is they long ago hit the point of diminishing returns. Getting that last .0001% out takes a lot more effort than getting the first 99.999% out. Go back to more sane standards there and knock off the other sources of pollution that swamp out the miniscule improvement from going from 99.99% to 99.9999%. I used to work in a factory environment and one of the things you do working with quality and defects in production is sort all the defects into a "pareto" chart. The most common problems get worked on, then the next most, and so on. At some point, if the problems are small enough, you may decide to live with them since fixing them is more $$ or general hassle than they are costing you. I think some of the pollution stuff is the same way. You could say the same thing about safety and security theatre. Rant off.

                    Jeff in ND

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                    • #11
                      The groundwork on this issue was pretty much settled back in the early days of Studebaker auto production, now 100 years ago. I would argue that electrics stood a better chance of catching on back when performance standards were being set. Some of the early electrics were economically viable back then. But, the advantages of other power systems won out. Electric propulsion did not disappear with the failure and disappearance of electric cars last century. It is still used by railroads, construction equipment, amusement parks, even in lawn care. The difference is those applications all have a predictable, routine pattern in which the delivery of the electrical energy can be predictably prepared for. No law passed by Congress can apply those same conditions to the auto industry.

                      Possibly the most telling death knell for modern electrics is told by the header of one of the articles sections: "Competing technologies are getting better, fast." If it isn't gasoline, another power source is likely to benefit from the same disadvantages that put electric propulsion well into the minority 100 years ago.

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                      • #12
                        Those people have an agenda, and it's showing. The big inefficiency in electric cars is the battery. You will do well indeed to get out of it 85% of what you put into it. Energy is lost as heat in the battery itself, and also the charger. But energy is also lost as heat right across the power grid. We put up with it, because there's no way around it, short of super-conducting power lines, which aren't practical yet. Add a whole whack of electric car charging stations to the grid, and the power lost goes up geometrically. P=I^2R (that's current squared times resistance).

                        To realistically compare efficiency between electric and gasoline cars, you have to compare the entire system; right from the cost of mining the coal or pumping and refining the oil.

                        Electric cars have their place; they'd be ideal for close-in urban commuting. But what we see are manufacturers trying to sell electric cars as being able to do everything a gas car can. They should quit trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and simply make and sell cheap, unabashedly short-range, electric urban cars, into urban markets that can use them. If they are cheap enough, people who can use them will buy them, and they will also buy or continue to own a gasoline car for longer road trips.

                        The electric cars currently in the marketplace are designed to fail, IMHO, because they are marketed as being good enough to be your only car, and people can see through that nonsense.
                        Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BobGlasscock View Post
                          An article in our paper yesterday explained in pretty good detail the pitfalls of ownership of an electric car for the homeowner. It explained the need for upgraded electrical amperage in the average home costing about $2000 or more, plus the need for a charging station which also will cost about $2000. Trying to charge the car with normal 110 volt amperage could take over 10 hours per charge, and may pop breakers. (I wonder what people who live in rental units will do.)
                          I would expect the average home will have TWO electric meters; one for your household use and one that rates as motor'fuel'. The one for your electric vehicle will have the same taxes affixed to it as what one pays for at a petroleum fuel pump, and it would be totally independent of your home's electrical system. I would expect utility companies to run a dedicated line from the overhead wires or underground cables to your garage or driveway without even touching the house.

                          Craig
                          Last edited by 8E45E; 11-24-2010, 01:46 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by gordr View Post
                            Electric cars have their place; they'd be ideal for close-in urban commuting. But what we see are manufacturers trying to sell electric cars as being able to do everything a gas car can. They should quit trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, and simply make and sell cheap, unabashedly short-range, electric urban cars, into urban markets that can use them. If they are cheap enough, people who can use them will buy them, and they will also buy or continue to own a gasoline car for longer road trips.
                            One actually sees this in Arizona. Many use their golf carts for short trips on a regular basis, such as to the store, etc. A lot of these villas have a 2-1/2 car garage, with a narrow overhead door specifically for the golf cart.

                            Craig

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                            • #15
                              I heard on the radio today (so it must be true!) that a full 20% of the hybrid/electric vehicles
                              sold in the last two years were purchased by US Gov't (GSA).
                              HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

                              Jeff


                              Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain



                              Note: SDC# 070190 (and earlier...)

                              Comment

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