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  • #16
    I'm not going to offer my opinion on domestic vs. foreign (?) made vehicles. Any idiot should know that either a good or a bad vehicle can come off the same assembly line.

    The issue in my opinion is whether or not a business is run from the CEO down to the laborer in a fashion that creates profit for the future operation of that business. If it isn't run that way, it should go out of business. Really simple. No business in the free enterprise system should ever be bailed out by taxpayer financing. None. I also don't believe in all the varieties of bankruptcy. There should be only one, lose all of your business assets and have a clean slate. I don't really like the clean slate part because it means a lot of other people who have contributed their output to earn an income lose the profit that they should have earned by selling to the bankrupt business. But all other types of bankruptcy should be abolished. Otherwise, let's all just be Communists.

    '50 Champion, 1 family owner

    Comment


    • #17
      quote:Originally posted by PlainBrownR2

      That said, I must ask:
      Where are the 12 second Cobalts, the 300 hp Milan's, the special edition 300C's. This has been the sticking point with these guys. I really care not for mileage, warranty, financing, I'd like a vehicle that has performance, and is not a Corvette, Camaro, or a Mustang. This is where the domestics are really coming up short. Oh it has spectacular mileage, but shoot if it can't break out of the 15's in the quarter mile. It hauls 4 people, but it comes up at the back of the pack at Lemans. That is how I got into liking some of the cars from across elsewhere. To make matters worse, I saw the GM's Puma, and I saw what they were going to do with 100 some odd years of business and history, and what their attitude now was with making anything with four wheels, yeeesssh.
      You can go to the Chrysler or Dodge dealer and get a 425HP Hemi in a new 300C or Charger. That engine is also in the Challenger and Jeep Grand Cherokee.

      If you go to a GM dealer you can get a 303HP Impala SS, a 361HP or 415HP Pontiac G8 or spend the really big bucks for a 500HP Cadillac CTS-V, a 440HP STS-V or XLR.

      With Ford, you are stuck with just the Mustang for a year. In 2010 you can buy a 365HP Taurus SHO.

      With the exception of the Taurus, these cars are available.

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Tom - Mulberry, FL

      1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

      Tom - Bradenton, FL

      1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
      1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

      Comment


      • #18
        quote:Originally posted by BobGlasscock

        The issue in my opinion is whether or not a business is run from the CEO down to the laborer in a fashion that creates profit for the future operation of that business. If it isn't run that way, it should go out of business. Really simple. No business in the free enterprise system should ever be bailed out by taxpayer financing.
        Bob, there is no free enterprise system. Other countries manipulate their currency and tax imports from our country, and we let them dump products here without recourse. Some free enterprise.

        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Tom - Mulberry, FL

        1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

        Tom - Bradenton, FL

        1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
        1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

        Comment


        • #19
          When was the last time Washington turned a profit? I think we should stop paying our taxes until they do. Why is it OK that AIG gets a bailout ($180B) when they gambled and lost on the stock market? If people had their retirement in the company, why prop them up?

          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Tom - Mulberry, FL

          1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

          Tom - Bradenton, FL

          1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
          1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

          Comment


          • #20
            quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


            1. The miniscule percentage of perceived domestic makes in DC is shameful. A vast majority of DCers extract a "livelihood" riding the backs of fellow Americans (i.e., taxpayers), but spend that income buying Volvos, BMWs, Hondas, etc.

            ..........................


            Why, if Volvos, BMWs, Honda Accords, and Toyota Camrys are so flawless, dependable, and downright "good," is it all but impossible to hale a 200,000-mile taxicab that doesn't say Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Gran Marquis, or Lincoln Town Car on it? Where are the 200,000-mile Volvos or Honda Accords that have been "takin' a lickin' and keep on tickin'" in brutal urban taxicab service?

            I think anyone who works to earn money should have the right to spend their money their way. Just because someone works in some way related to our government shouldn't mean we have the ethical right to determine how they should spend the money they earn.

            I don't know of an American company that buys/leases a fleet of vehicles that doesn't use American made cars simply because if they bought for price, economy of operation, and dependability and somehow ended up buying a "foreign" name car, THEY have the perception that all Americans would then hate them. Hmm, this forum seems to support that. So, they buy American made (regardless of foreign made or assembly) in order to measure up to a perceived level of acceptance. Hence, no foreign name taxis. Now, to prove the point, think on your own about the biggest 'American' companies and the fleet makes they own. (Xerox, IBM, AT&T, etc.)

            '50 Champion, 1 family owner

            Comment


            • #21
              It's the Unions, GM would be the most successful company in the world without the unoins.

              Alex Nelsen ,the youngest Studebaker nut in the world!
              1954 Champion Coupe
              Lizella, GA
              Alex Nelsen, certified Studebaker nut.
              Driving a 1954 Champion Coupe powered by a Chrysler 383.
              Lizella, GA

              Comment


              • #22
                The U.S. builds great cars....I was surprised by the number of Chrylers/Jeeps I saw in Europe last week. There was even a Chevy dealer in Nice, France. In Monte Carlo, I saw a couple of Escalades drive past the casino, along with a C6 Corvette. However, there were still more Bentleys parked out front...which probably says more about the money there than the quality of U.S. cars.

                Bob Palma is right, there are a lot of imports in D.C., but if you look closely, most of the elected officails drive U.S. cars. They pretty much have to. Obama had a Hemi Chrysler 300C before it was pointed out to him that it was un-PC. So he bought a hybrid...an American hybrid...a Ford Escape mini-SUV.

                Part of the trouble is, the "boomers" who came of age in the 60s (and who are now the movers & shakers and the "intellgencia") have always bought imports.
                (How many American cars do you see at your school districts's admin. building? Here, it's wall to wall Subarus). Back in the day it was VWs, now it's Lexuses. Sadly, because of their activism (and probably contributions) they have the politicians ear.

                Last week on the Time magazine website, they had a list of the 50 worst cars written by an LA Times columnist. As you can guess, he didn't have much good to say about American cars. He picked the 70 Imperial, Pinto and Gremlin as representatives of 70s American cars. He threw in the Explorer and Excursion just to impress his boss and anti-SUV friends. (Forgetting for a moment, the U.S. government...knower of all truths...doesn't even call the Excursion a car. It's an F-250 with a back seat and cargo area.)

                His lack of basic knowledge was appearent when he listed the Model T as a bad car, saying it was poorly made and calling it the Yugo of its day. Obviously, he's never heard that Ford used higher quaility steel than the expensive imports. And while far from being a Model T expert, I've seen and ridden in enough of them to know they were very well built for their day. He's probably upset because they don't have cupholders and ABS systems.
                Guys like that write to impress their anti-Detroit bosses and think anyone who drives a Detrot vehicle is a rube from the sticks.

                With such self-important people badmouthing American cars and spreading myths and lies, I don't see how things will improve.






                63 Avanti R1 2788
                1914 Stutz Bearcat
                (George Barris replica)

                Washington State
                63 Avanti R1 2788
                1914 Stutz Bearcat
                (George Barris replica)

                Washington State

                Comment


                • #23
                  Great posts again, Tom. To your hi-perf list I'll add my buddy's '05 Trailblazer SUV with the 400HP Corvette engine[8D]

                  Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                  Parish, central NY 13131

                  "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                  "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Tom, sir, imho you need to create a boundary in your mind between politics/government and the business world. They are two totally different worlds with two totally different purposes.

                    The government should NEVER turn a profit, we taxpayers should get every cent of our money back in government services.

                    Businesses should ALWAYS turn a profit so that that money goes around and around in a huge circle improving the lives of all of us who DO live in a free enterprise system.

                    '50 Champion, 1 family owner

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I guess I just erred in thinking that this thread was about the bankruptcy and bailout of GM rather than a discourse on politics.

                      '50 Champion, 1 family owner

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        quote:Originally posted by BobGlasscock

                        Tom, sir, imho you need to create a boundary in your mind between politics/government and the business world. They are two totally different worlds with two totally different purposes.

                        The government should NEVER turn a profit, we taxpayers should get every cent of our money back in government services.

                        Businesses should ALWAYS turn a profit so that that money goes around and around in a huge circle improving the lives of all of us who DO live in a free enterprise system.
                        Bob, we don't live in a free enterprise world, and the government is up to their eyeballs in automotive regulation. Take the government out of the auto industry and all 3 would make money hand over fist. Allow there to be a level playing field and they'd really make a killing. But our government thinks they know how to build a car and they over regulate it. We have laws against dumping but the justice department looked the other way for Lexus and Infiniti in 1990.

                        Before WWII, our country was an isolationist country. I'm thinking that wouldn't be so bad now.

                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Tom - Mulberry, FL

                        1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

                        Tom - Bradenton, FL

                        1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                        1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I never said "free enterprise world", I said a "free enterprise system". The rights of business operation and ownership vary from country to country.

                          '50 Champion, 1 family owner

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            quote:Originally posted by BobGlasscock

                            I guess I just erred in thinking that this thread was about the bankruptcy and bailout of GM rather than a discourse on politics.
                            The auto industry has been made political by Pelosi and her tree huggers or the Senators in states where their are foreign car assembly plants (Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee, etc). Buy a foreign piece of crap if you want, but I will not. This thread is just as much about the bailout as bankruptcy, no?

                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Tom - Mulberry, FL

                            1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

                            Tom - Bradenton, FL

                            1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                            1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              quote:Originally posted by BobGlasscock

                              I never said "free enterprise world", I said a "free enterprise system". The rights of business operation and ownership vary from country to country.
                              When Toyota, BMW, Honda, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Fiat, Volvo, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler, SAAB, etc. sell cars in this country, it's a free enterprise world or it isn't. And that is the problem.

                              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Tom - Mulberry, FL

                              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

                              Tom - Bradenton, FL

                              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                              1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                quote:Originally posted by BobGlasscock


                                I don't know of an American company that buys/leases a fleet of vehicles that doesn't use American made cars simply because if they bought for price, economy of operation, and dependability and somehow ended up buying a "foreign" name car, THEY have the perception that all Americans would then hate them. Hmm, this forum seems to support that. So, they buy American made (regardless of foreign made or assembly) in order to measure up to a perceived level of acceptance. Hence, no foreign name taxis. Now, to prove the point, think on your own about the biggest 'American' companies and the fleet makes they own. (Xerox, IBM, AT&T, etc.)
                                Not holding true. How about the city of Indianapolis, of all places, bought a fleet of new Camrys over Malibus- despite the Malibus beating the plastic wheelcovers off the Camrys in quality (J.D. Power) and costing $5,000 less than Camrys- EACH??

                                Just another example of insane logic.

                                Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
                                Parish, central NY 13131

                                "Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

                                "Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"



                                Comment

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