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Washington, potentially first state to ban new petroleum-fueled cars in 2030

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  • #46
    Originally posted by J_Cole View Post
    The other concern, and not raised here, or by Harry is what about those who rent? Where do we charge our cars in apartments or without garages?
    In the northern climates, that issue is partially solved. The majority of residential (and hotel) parking areas outdoors are already wired for engine block heaters with one outlet per stall, but not sure if they would be able to handle a 'fast charge', as they aren't rated for that.

    Craig

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    • #47
      Originally posted by 556063 View Post
      I stood in a 50'x60' enclosed factory section Monday, doors closed, with a gasoline powered 3.7L industrial engine running for six hours at 2500 RPM under full load doing an application review. Not that I'd endorse anyone else doing so, but engines today are d**n clean. No exhaust smell at all. CO2 detectors in place. Same goes for new Tier 4 Final Diesels (above 25 HP). Scrubber companies that used to sell aftermarket exhaust cleaners are closing shop because new engines run so clean, they have nothing to sell to underground or enclosed users.
      The exhaust is still vented either through the roof or wall, regardless how 'clean' it burns, otherwise, the building will pressurize.

      We build lots of Aurora fire pump packages with Clarke 8 and 12 cylinder diesels, and the exhaust is ALWAYS vented outside if it goes inside an enclosed building.

      Craig

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      • #48
        Originally posted by 8E45E View Post

        In the northern climates, that issue is partially solved. The majority of residential (and hotel) parking areas outdoors are already wired for engine block heaters with one outlet per stall, but not sure if they would be able to handle a 'fast charge', as they aren't rated for that.

        Craig
        I haven't seen that here in the DC, Cleveland where i lived for a couple years, or South Bend where I'm from. It would have been a great feature to have in Cleveland which gets some brutal winters though! I do know a lot of newer "luxury" apartments/condos are adding charging stations for cars so I see it coming and older buildings eventually being retrofitted for it. My "luxury" apartment was built 7 years ago or so and doesn't have any place to charge cars but the building across the street and built by the same company has 3-4 charging stations. Go figure. It will be interesting to see what happens in the post-covid world as our reliance on cars may further decrease if more and more companies don't go back to the office. So electric cars may further grow or car sharing programs may become the rage where we don't own cars but just rent one as needed.

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        • #49
          I think that the speed of the evolution, at present, is much more regional then universal. It's hard to deny the what's happening. The process is going on all around the world. Some places will move more rapidly then others, but it is bound to spread, because the situation demands it.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by 556063 View Post
            Plus, who's going to break it to the farmer that operates his tractor or combine 18 hours a day that he has to stop at 6-8 hours for a recharge, given there is an electric system that would go 6-8 hours under that kind of load? Please inform me?
            This. There are some applications that aren't a good fit for electrification at this point, and may never really be. Especially a piece of equipment that HAS to be able to run continuously, at high horsepower levels... and may only be used a few weeks a year. Handing a logger a battery electric chainsaw... probably not gonna happen.

            On the other hand: I've seen mall security vehicles that spend many hours a day sitting in a parking lot, usually with the engine running to power lights and/or aircon. These coulda/shoulda been electric years ago! Short haul delivery? Definitely.

            Whirling dervish of misinformation.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Lark Hunter View Post

              This. There are some applications that aren't a good fit for electrification at this point, and may never really be.
              It's tough to see beyond current technology limitations. 5 years ago I could not have imagined an electric production luxury car that could run sub 2 second 0-60 times and 9 second quarter miles, go 200 MPH and set the production car track record at Laguna Seca and cost $800,000 LESS than its closest ICE competitor. Tesla Model S Plaid.

              Given that, I can imagine an electric chain saw with more torque and RPM than an ICE powered one, one that weighs less and can cut all day. The limiting factor today is the battery....but probably won't be tomorrow.
              Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 04-24-2021, 10:24 AM.
              Dick Steinkamp
              Bellingham, WA

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              • #52
                Automotive News just released an excellent, contemporary 12-minute video review of General Motors' EV-1 from the 1990s. Interesting and well-put-together.

                Much of the documentary interviews former GM V. P. of Engineering Don Runkle, who worked on the project. I loved Don's concluding remarks from 10:45-11:26; spot-on.

                Well-spoken throughout; worth 12 minutes of your time:

                https://www.autonews.com/ev1videos?u...ent=hero-image

                We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                Ayn Rand:
                "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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                • #53
                  I am just thinking out loud here....

                  With batteries being one problematic area for electric vehicles, supercapacitors/ultracapacitors may soon replace lithium-based batteries with some of the benefits being lighter weight, extremely quick recharge times and possibly no need for rare earth minerals in their construction.

                  However, the main problem for electric vehicles will be generating enough electricity and distributing that electricity to each automobile for recharging.

                  If Nikola Tesla were still with us, he would likely show us how to use atmospheric electricity to power our cars (free energy!). Perhaps he would charge a massive supercapacitor with lightning and use it to recharge smaller supercapacitors in automobiles. Or perhaps he would have a method far more bizarre than what I mentioned.

                  The current (no pun intended) method of generating electricity and sending it by power lines in order to recharge batteries seems a bit archaic being that it has been accomplished this way for 120+ years. We should have a better alternative by now.
                  sigpic
                  In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                    Automotive News just released an excellent, contemporary 12-minute video review of General Motors' EV-1 from the 1990s. Interesting and well-put-together.

                    Much of the documentary interviews former GM V. P. of Engineering Don Runkle, who worked on the project. I loved Don's concluding remarks from 10:45-11:26; spot-on.

                    Well-spoken throughout; worth 12 minutes of your time:

                    https://www.autonews.com/ev1videos?u...ent=hero-image
                    Glad to see that you still open these. I don’t always but this one is interesting.

                    I recently saw an interview with Elon Musk where he said, to make a successful place in a market you can’t have a product as good as what’s already established, it must be superior in every way. Don Runkle said pretty close to the same thing.
                    Proud NON-CASO

                    I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                    If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                    GOD BLESS AMERICA

                    Ephesians 6:10-17
                    Romans 15:13
                    Deuteronomy 31:6
                    Proverbs 28:1

                    Illegitimi non carborundum

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                    • #55
                      Thanks for posting, Bob. Really enjoyable.
                      While I appreciate the segment you cited with the acknowledgement of subsidies distorting markets long enough for development and public acceptance, I wouldn't call that his conclusion.
                      His conclusion, as I watched it, was that we are approaching that tipping point of viability.

                      FWIW, most "car" families at my work intend to buy an electric as their next vehicle...one to perfectly offset a '67 Coronet R/T convertible.
                      Andy
                      62 GT

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                      • #56
                        Been following this since I have been looking forward to electric cars since the mid 60s. 2 years ago, we purchased a 2019 Niro HEV for around $21,000. We did consider the PHEV, but it cost around $30,000 to give us a 26 mile EV range. I do not believe we looked at full EV at that time. Based on our rate of 12 cents/KWH, the Chevy bolt would cost $3.48 to yield 100 miles (29 KWH/100 miles * .12). The Niro HEV gets 50+ mpg. Gas is $2.56 today. For $5.12/100 miles. We currently drive about 1500 miles/month for around $77.00. If we purchased a Bolt EV, it would cost us about $52 for the same 1500 miles. Of course, the maintenance for the EV would be less- basically no oil changes. Since we have a 100,000 mile warranty, we do not expect any additional costs, due to the IC components. In short, a full EV is not cost effective for us at this time. As is often said, your results may vary.
                        78 Avanti RQB 2792
                        64 Avanti R1 R5408
                        63 Avanti R1 R4551
                        63 Avanti R1 R2281
                        62 GT Hawk V15949
                        56 GH 6032504
                        56 GH 6032588
                        55 Speedster 7160047
                        55 Speedster 7165279

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Andy R. View Post
                          ... with the acknowledgement of subsidies distorting markets long enough for development and public acceptance, ...
                          As if the taxpayers haven't been subsidizing petroleum industries since WWII.

                          "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

                          Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
                          Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
                          '33 Rockne 10,
                          '51 Commander Starlight,
                          '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée",
                          '56 Sky Hawk

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                          • #58
                            OK folks, let's keep this civil and on point. Some are currently walking very close to the line. It's an interesting subject and let's keep it that way, please.
                            sigpicSee you in the future as I write about our past

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