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  • #16
    [QUOTE]
    Originally posted by studegary View Post

    No, I did not bring it up with the new, young salesman. I figured that would be futile...
    That's another thing! So many of today's dealers are bragging about their "No Negotiating" policy, claiming their first price is their best price. Fact is, rarely can a first-line salesman do anything without the permission of the "sales manager." It has been my experience that most salesmen who actually roam the parking lots to greet potential customers have the least knowledge and certainly no authority to negotiate anything. And, the business management has very little respect for the art of salesmanship and those hired to carry it out. Usually, this kind of attitude seems to happen after the founders of a given business have retired and turned the operation over to their spoiled kids looking to continue their lives without having to make the difficult decisions and risks that paved the way for their comfortable protected and safe cushy lifestyles. A no negotiate dealer salesman is mainly a clerk with a smile, little knowledge, fill in the blank forms, and no authority. The most frustrating part of such a job is that when a salesman with no authority does not make the sale...he gets 100% responsibility/ blame!

    Even if you manage to get by the first salesman to negotiate with the sales manager, you are not in the clear for a good deal. Often, once you agree on a dollar figure, you then get turned over to the "paperwork shuffle," where they add in extra profit fees (called "doc fees") and/or administrative fees, or fees with fancy titles like "Administrative Charge" (read that as "extra profit.") or when financing, "standard secured loan" (which means an insurance policy you pay for in case you default on your loan, payable to the dealer).

    Pardon me if I appear a bit skeptical regarding the state of car buying and the public's attitude of acceptance. No wonder such online "no contact" business models like Carvana is currently thriving. In my recent excursion to a few car lots, I've already told one salesman, I can easily buy "no negotiate" deals without him, his manager, or the dealership's involvement.

    Besides my white hair...just, another sign...time has truly passed me by.
    John Clary
    Greer, SC

    SDC member since 1975

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Avantidon View Post
      John, your idea of keeping your old truck is a good one. My truck is 22 years old and for the same reason as you I will not buy a new one. I've got 158,000 or so miles on it and i did paint it. Outside of that everything works and I love to use it. Can't see spendind $$$$ for a new one. Like you we owe nothing other than our utility bill on a monthly basis. You've made the right decision keeping the old one. Of course this is my opinion
      I think I have you guys beat on two counts. (1) Have always been too cheap to ever buy a brand-new truck. (Not cheap when it comes to Studebakers, though.) (2) My daily-driver 95 GMC just passed its 26th birthday, approaching 175K mi. Just replaced the shocks and some of the brake lines.

      My wife would like me to sell it for a smaller truck with automatic. She doesn't like stick shift (though she drives it fine), and thinks it's too big. I like it because it has stick shift and is big enough to haul anything I need to haul.

      Stalemate.
      Skip Lackie

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      • #18
        Interesting discussion, even though it got away from the original subject. But, i’ll add my recent experience.

        I am 59 years of age and have never owned a brand new vehicle. For the life of me I have never understood paying interest on an item that is simultaneously plummeting in value.

        My current truck is my favorite truck I’ve ever owned, out of a few hundred trucks: 2002 avalanche 2500 with the 496 big block and one ton suspension. I have had it about seven years. When it came to me, Central New York road salt had already taken it’s toll. It has held up well because I try not to drive it on winter roads unless I need to, but still, it has not gotten any better. Now it has gotten to a point where the transfer case and front axle are going to need an overhaul, and I am not willing to spend three grand on a truck that has been severely compromised by rust. So, I am (casually) looking for a better truck.

        I was talking to a longtime friend at a Dodge dealer where I have done business for many years. He had seen me looking at a brand new, black, 2500 Dodge (sorry, RAM) on the way in to pick up a part. This guy has known me over 20 years. He made a comment about the truck and I said that it was pretty. Long story short he offered me a price but got me to think a little. Longer story even shorter, he got me to sit down with him, only to find out that he “made a mistake and the manager could not honor the deal he had given me” but that we were close and for a “little more” we could get it done. So annoying

        In the end I’ll leave it in God’s hands. If he thinks I need a new truck he will make the right deal present itself. In the meantime I will continue to drive my still perfectly running 19-year-old truck and keep my eye open for a 2500 Avalanche in a southern state that has no rust.
        Last edited by Bob Andrews; 09-28-2020, 12:52 PM.
        Proud NON-CASO

        I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

        If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

        GOD BLESS AMERICA

        Ephesians 6:10-17
        Romans 15:13
        Deuteronomy 31:6
        Proverbs 28:1

        Illegitimi non carborundum

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        • #19
          a simple google search provides answers
          https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...xtra/index.htm

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          • #20
            Originally posted by creegster View Post
            a simple google search provides answers
            https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...xtra/index.htm
            The article states basic non-pearl white (which Gary insists the color of the Acura he saw was in the showroom) is not an extra-cost color, at least on Mercedes Benz and BMW. I remember the first Pontiac Fieros only came in red or white.

            Craig

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 8E45E View Post

              The article states basic non-pearl white (which Gary insists the color of the Acura he saw was in the showroom) is not an extra-cost color, at least on Mercedes Benz and BMW. I remember the first Pontiac Fieros only came in red or white.

              Craig
              I didn't say that it wasn't pearl. I believe that all of their colors are called pearl finishes. I said that it wasn't a "super special pearl job".
              Today, I discovered that the 2021 TLX is offered in six colors. The color that I like is Fathom Blue Pearl and there is no extra charge for that color as there is with the white.
              Gary L.
              Wappinger, NY

              SDC member since 1968
              Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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              • #22
                Hopefully your salesman didn't learn from "Killer Monsoon".

                https://www.foolproofme.org/download...aken_intro.pdf

                I worked at a dealerships for 17 1/2 years and we stayed away from the salesmen. Especially the one that peed in our washroom shop sink.

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                • #23
                  I think Studebaker charged extra for Avanti Black when it was reintroduced after it was first discontinued due to the extra work a body needed to show well with black paint. Chrysler charged a nominal fee for some shades of red in the 80's, as those formulas required actual gold in their formulas. Those were marginal fees back in the day. But now that a car is over $40K, is $500 marginal?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 556063 View Post
                    I think Studebaker charged extra for Avanti Black when it was reintroduced after it was first discontinued due to the extra work a body needed to show well with black paint. Chrysler charged a nominal fee for some shades of red in the 80's, as those formulas required actual gold in their formulas. Those were marginal fees back in the day. But now that a car is over $40K, is $500 marginal?
                    Those extra fees were justifiable on the Avanti with the extra prep work required on fiberglass, and labor to make the black finish appear acceptable.

                    Cadillac had their 'Firemist' colors which cost extra in the 1970's, as well the option of ordering a previous year's Cadillac color for a nominal fee. In the early 2000's, Ford offered 'Mystic' paint on Mustangs, which was Valspar/House of Kolor's "Chromaflair" line of color shift paints, that was a rather significant amount over and above the cost of a standard paint finish. According to a member who owned a body shop here, a pint of that color shift paint was something like $500. Now I'm seeing figures of $4-5K and more for certain finishes on cars. Its no wonder these Paintless Dent Repair outfits are thriving.

                    Craig

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