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  • #31
    Originally posted by dpson View Post
    All powerful nations peak and then decline. America peaked after WWII and is now in a period of decline. We will be replaced by China as the next world superpower, both economically and militarily, just as we replaced the British empire.
    History has a way of showing you what is down the road. If you could ask a guy in an 1860 English textile mill if there would ever be a nation as powerful as Great Britain, he would have laughed you out of the room.
    Last edited by 62champ; 05-24-2020, 05:16 AM.

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    • #32
      Yogi,
      Did you see the television expose on the Organic California vegetables sold by Whole Foods? A google search will show you how they have, in very fine print on the back of the packages,: "Product of China".
      Take your cheater glasses when you go shopping so you know what you are buying(or not).
      Bill

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      • #33
        I just found out that "Smithfield", the meat company that makes VERY GOOD bacon, ham, etc. is owned by China. I think it is a Chinese company but all Chinese companies are ruled by the Communist Government.

        Comment


        • #34
          Globalization is the single thing that has guided almost all world economic activity since WWII. Since the Marshall Plan it has been the singularly most important factor in bringing nations out of poverty, providing starving people the means for their sustenance, tremendously increased the available supply of capital, it has been the source for research and development, led the response to world health issues, helped to keep inflation in check and arguably help establish some semblance of political accord around the world.

          Domestically the US has been the leader in and the biggest benefactor from globalization. In the past seventy years globalization has enriched the US by an estimated $50T, equivalent to about two and one half years of GDP. Up until about 1970 the US domestic market could have been satisfied by it's own domestic capability for production. For the last fifty years our standard of living has been dependent on overseas markets for our farm produce, advanced computer technology, coal and now oil production and even airplane production. On the flip side it has allowed for the import of foods unavailable domestically and all the other things that have come to accept as essential from Toyotas to pharmaceuticals. The bottom line is that the US, or no other nation, has enough of the supply of the factors of production (land, labor and capital) to maintain it's current standard of living without globalization. Any nation trying to play by another set of rules then that the rest of the world, is bound to suffer run away inflation, recession, possibly to the point of a depression and ultimately political chaos.

          Manufacturing moves from country to country as that nation prospers, and the cost of it's domestic labor increases. I think most of us are old enough to remember the 50's, when Japanese goods were considered substandard and cheap. Then it was Korean production of the 80's. What I'm trying to say is that domestic manufacturing has and will continue to return to North America, but only when it can compete with the cost and quality of overseas competition. The US is only the star player on team of global economics, but it takes everyone else working in accord to make it a winner.

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          • #35
            My view is that we need to focus on basic skills and the knowledge that is required to function as a free and independent nation. NOT, how cheap or either how "lowly" the job or product may be. For example, such tools as these jack stands might not be all that important of a product to our society or economy, but...the skill to make molds, smelt, cast, and forge metals IS A NEED IMPORTANT TO OUR SURVIVAL AND SECURITY. There is a new government-sponsored program targeting the disadvantaged. I would love to see some of these imported type products brought back and used in these "enterprise zone" programs to make these type products here while teaching those skills. We could begin making those products here while teaching and maintaining those skills while giving those who participate the opportunity to take those skills and move on up in their economic circumstances in a manner kind of unique to our US societal structure.

            Jack stands, wrenches, sandpaper, power tools, saw blades, flashlights, textiles, furniture...you name it. If it is a consumer product, we should be able to make it. What we don't need is to conjure up a bunch of idiotic regulations that make you into a citizen criminal for providing a product that people want to buy, but to readily accept the same product using same (or worse) processes from another country!

            Years ago, I had a customer that made chain saws. I sold them coolant for their machine tools. A 55-gallon drum of my coolant was about $400. One day, I was out on their shipping dock with the plant engineer. There was one of my old coolant drums (being used to ship away waste coolant) with a shipping label to a waste company. As bad as the company complained about how much I charged for my coolant...the company that hauled off their waste chemicals was charging them over a thousand dollars a drum to haul it off! It was those kinds of regulations (like vice grips on the gonads) that sent that manufacturer and others packing to offshore locations.

            To simplify, it looks like we could take the incentives for "Enterprise Zones," and marry them to encourage the manufacturing of many of these imported and lost manufacturing goods here in the good ole' USA.
            John Clary
            Greer, SC

            SDC member since 1975

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by jclary View Post
              My view is that we need to focus on basic skills and the knowledge that is required to function as a free and independent nation. NOT, how cheap or either how "lowly" the job or product may be. For example, such tools as these jack stands might not be all that important of a product to our society or economy, but...the skill to make molds, smelt, cast, and forge metals IS A NEED IMPORTANT TO OUR SURVIVAL AND SECURITY. There is a new government-sponsored program targeting the disadvantaged. I would love to see some of these imported type products brought back and used in these "enterprise zone" programs to make these type products here while teaching those skills. We could begin making those products here while teaching and maintaining those skills while giving those who participate the opportunity to take those skills and move on up in their economic circumstances in a manner kind of unique to our US societal structure.

              Jack stands, wrenches, sandpaper, power tools, saw blades, flashlights, textiles, furniture...you name it. If it is a consumer product, we should be able to make it. What we don't need is to conjure up a bunch of idiotic regulations that make you into a citizen criminal for providing a product that people want to buy, but to readily accept the same product using same (or worse) processes from another country!

              Years ago, I had a customer that made chain saws. I sold them coolant for their machine tools. A 55-gallon drum of my coolant was about $400. One day, I was out on their shipping dock with the plant engineer. There was one of my old coolant drums (being used to ship away waste coolant) with a shipping label to a waste company. As bad as the company complained about how much I charged for my coolant...the company that hauled off their waste chemicals was charging them over a thousand dollars a drum to haul it off! It was those kinds of regulations (like vice grips on the gonads) that sent that manufacturer and others packing to offshore locations.

              To simplify, it looks like we could take the incentives for "Enterprise Zones," and marry them to encourage the manufacturing of many of these imported and lost manufacturing goods here in the good ole' USA.
              John: Don't let this go to your head, but you really are one of the smartest people I know. BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by BobPalma View Post

                John: Don't let this go to your head, but you really are one of the smartest people I know. BP
                UH OH, Bob...All these years...I have been keeping it a secret. From my parents, siblings, school teachers, through my military service, then college professors, employers, and my family. Looks like only you, have such astute discernment.

                Or...could you be the one who got the real "decoder ring" in that cereal box when you were a kid?

                John Clary
                Greer, SC

                SDC member since 1975

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by BobPalma View Post

                  John: Don't let this go to your head, but you really are one of the smartest people I know. BP
                  And one of the finest people I know. Not meant to embarrass you. A few here would do well to emulate you. Same with BP. I cherish the great people I have met through Studebakers, and discard the chaff.
                  Proud NON-CASO

                  I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

                  If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth - let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

                  GOD BLESS AMERICA

                  Ephesians 6:10-17
                  Romans 15:13
                  Deuteronomy 31:6
                  Proverbs 28:1

                  Illegitimi non carborundum

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by jclary View Post
                    As bad as the company complained about how much I charged for my coolant...the company that hauled off their waste chemicals was charging them over a thousand dollars a drum to haul it off! It was those kinds of regulations (like vice grips on the gonads) that sent that manufacturer and others packing to offshore locations
                    We have tried to bury drums of discarded and 'waste' chemicals locally so that they were "out of sight" and "out of mind", but the contents of them came back to haunt in a harmful way a few decades later. Hooker Chemical and Love Canal come to mind.

                    Craig


                    Comment


                    • #40
                      We have tried to bury drums of discarded and 'waste' chemicals locally so that they were "out of sight" and "out of mind", but the contents of them came back to haunt in a harmful way a few decades later. Hooker Chemical and Love Canal come to mind.

                      Craig,
                      Does the Hanford nuclear reservation come to mind? I've been there working on various projects going back 30 years & I'm convinced that we haven't even begun to come to grips with the remediation that needs to be done at that site. $10 Billion was spent just on cleaning up the bus barn and the tanks with the liquid nuclear waste, which we know are leaking, are just sitting there waiting for the vitrification plant to become active.
                      "Every man I meet on the street is superior to me in some respect, and from that I can learn."
                      R.W. Emerson

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by jclary View Post
                        My view is that we need to focus on basic skills and the knowledge that is required to function as a free and independent nation. NOT, how cheap or either how "lowly" the job or product may be. For example, such tools as these jack stands might not be all that important of a product to our society or economy, but...the skill to make molds, smelt, cast, and forge metals IS A NEED IMPORTANT TO OUR SURVIVAL AND SECURITY. There is a new government-sponsored program targeting the disadvantaged. I would love to see some of these imported type products brought back and used in these "enterprise zone" programs to make these type products here while teaching those skills. We could begin making those products here while teaching and maintaining those skills while giving those who participate the opportunity to take those skills and move on up in their economic circumstances in a manner kind of unique to our US societal structure.
                        John-
                        I do not disagree with your premise, but you (and I) are in the minority. Many (the majority of?) Americans want:
                        1. Cheap and plentiful consumer products; and
                        2. High wages for low-skilled jobs.

                        The two desires are not compatible.
                        Skip Lackie

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Well...it looks like we've wandered far afield from the simple title of this thread. But, it proves that us Studebaker fans are really not a simple "go along to get along" crowd. As I said before, we didn't land where we are overnight and it will take some time (if ever) to correct it. I've come to be suspicious of the word "complex," because of who over-uses the word and the implications implied by those who overuse it. Mainly, so-called journalists and politicians (conservatives & liberals). When confronted with a problem they have difficulty explaining...the fallback answer is, "It's complex." Meaning...you are too stupid to understand and only we elites are smart enough to lead you, peasants, through the maze. To me, another "implied" meaning is "we don't need to explain it to the ignorant masses...we know what's better for them."

                          I have met, and dealt with such attitudes from celebrities, college professors, senators, government, and corporate officials, preachers, to small business owners with a Napoleonic complex. It is a seductive temptation that many otherwise successful people fall into. It makes it easy to devalue the skills, and work of others we perceive as lower, slower, with little skill.

                          I am writing this in a feeble attempt to set up my point to address the importance of "BUY USA." OR... for our international members...Buy to support your own country It seems that we(in the US) have had a few decades of trying to develop a "designer population." Everybody should have a college education, be computer literate (dependent), air-conditioned everything, and nobody needs to sweat except when using their gym membership.

                          As we chased our manufacturing jobs away, the generic mythical "THEYS" of our society were selling the idea that we are becoming a "service" economy. As if "service" meant everyone would have a cushy high-tech job and nobody would have to have busted knuckles or dirty fingernails. Chasing away the "unskilled dirty work" was a noble thing to do by giving the less fortunate countries a way to elevate themselves. I have actually been in business luncheons where business owners made jokes about hamburger flippers while eating a hamburger. What I'm trying to say is that we need these jobs! We need the skills to do "unskilled" work! It is our foundation. I have one friend who started out flipping hamburgers in college and ended up with fast-food franchises in three states. He later sold his empire and lives very comfortably in retirement. But...he started out flippin' burgers. I truly believe that to be successful...every nation needs a complete economy. There's room for every job and skill. The guy doing that "Dirty Jobs" TV program gets it. We all need to "get it."

                          Our fellow forum member, dleroux, has a saying in his signature that has a very deep meaning, "Every man I meet on the street is superior to me in some respect, and from that, I can learn." R.W. Emerson

                          It is a very powerful thought. It implies respect. To me, it says that if the guy you meet on the street flips burgers, empties your trash, mows your lawn, or changes your oil...he's doing something respectful and valuable. There are people wielding a spray gun painting parts on a conveyor line, or programming a robot to spray the parts. Motel maids, baggage handlers, and ticket takers, are respectful jobs. Even in this pandemic, jobs that have been deemed "non-essential," deserve "respect." Our nation has a heritage of "bottom-up" opportunism and, although not perfect, I fear that if we abandon that heritage, devalue the foundation jobs...we will truly fall to despair and disrepair. We do not need to import all those products, or people to provide bottom-up work...we shouldn't be that arrogant. But respectful and humble enough to appreciate their value.

                          OH...by the way...it is complicated...but if a hillbilly like me can articulate it...

                          Those so-called elites should not be allowed to simply declare "it's complicated" and merely walk away.
                          John Clary
                          Greer, SC

                          SDC member since 1975

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            John,
                            You humble me. I've tried to live my live according to that dictate and I've come to not only appreciate but learn from the person standing next to you. As long as you approach every individual as an equal, or that the person stranding next to you knows something that you don't, then you can learn from that interaction and hope that going forward it makes you more knowledgeable. In a more updated version it can be simplified to: "Don't believe everything you think."
                            "Every man I meet on the street is superior to me in some respect, and from that I can learn."
                            R.W. Emerson

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Again, John; well-stated (Post #42)....you are, of course, spot-on. Thanks for taking the time to compose it. BP
                              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                              Ayn Rand:
                              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                                Again, John; well-stated (Post #42)....you are, of course, spot-on. Thanks for taking the time to compose it. BP
                                GOOD GRIEF, Bob...I was sitting here trying to watch tv and mess with the forum at the same time. Clicked on your post, and at first, my old slow to focus eyes read the above as "thanks for taking the time to COMPOST it." I need to back away and rest my tired eyes. But...thanks for the compliment.
                                John Clary
                                Greer, SC

                                SDC member since 1975

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