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  • #16
    I think a bigger worry than any foreign nation and jobs here at home is the tsunami that is growing with the automation in the world of work - if you think things have changed in the last 100 years, you ain't seen nothing yet...

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    • #17
      Not going to take the bait. I probably should not have opened this Stove Huggers Topic. This is like an Octopus with it tentacales wrapped around everything.

      Bob Miles

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      • #18
        I think you'd call this a related topic!

        https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...0Non%20Openers
        We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

        Ayn Rand:
        "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

        G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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        • #19
          Re: post 18. I wonder if the same jack stands weren't sold under other labels as well.
          Don Wilson, Centralia, WA

          40 Champion 4 door*
          50 Champion 2 door*
          53 Commander K Auto*
          53 Commander K overdrive*
          55 President Speedster
          62 GT 4Speed*
          63 Avanti R1*
          64 Champ 1/2 ton

          * Formerly owned

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          • #20
            Trying to keep it all USA is a challenge these days. I have a 1998 Kawasaki four-wheeler. I use it for knock around chores here. Like when my mower broke, I used it to tow the mower back to the barn. Truth is...it was just another "fixer-upper" toy I bought several years ago just because I wanted to play with it, and I thought a pretty good deal because I was pretty sure I could fix the problems the owner had given up on. One problem I have put off too long is replacing the original tires. They still have knobbys on the tires, but the rubber is so hard & brittle that the last time I got it out of the barn in light snow...I didn't think I would get back because even with knobby tires and four-wheel drive...it would just spin. Even on wet grass, it has poor traction.

            So...I priced tires at a local tire store. $450 bucks! Shucks, I just knew I could do better than that. So, I went home and found the same tires on Amazon for $239.00 with free shipping. I rarely shop online, so my wife used her Amazon prime account and ordered the set of four. Good Grief...we get an "order delivered notice" on her phone this morning. (We didn't hear the truck) It's pouring rain, I check the porch and sure 'nuff...there's only two tires...supposed to be four. So...here we go, emailing, texting, and a text/chat session. First, they offered to do a refund, but I want the tires. They email us a return label...but, I want the tires. They said I would need to take the two tires I have to the nearest UPS store for return...even though it was delivered by FedEx? Round & round we go with some young personality-less anonymous keyboard operator with no people skills doing their best to direct me into some kind of solution that will cause more work and end up being more trouble and a money-losing solution for everyone. So I persisted that if they will have the seller/supplier of the tires to contact me, hopefully, I can just get them to ship me the remainder of the order. We will see???

            That leads me to the next quandary. I have a tire bead breaker tool. It came from a motorcycle shop where someone improperly tried to use it and broke it. The shop owner gave it to me. I took it home, straightened the warped parts and welded the broken parts. I can either go to Harbor Freight and buy a couple of Chinese tire irons or attempt to use a couple of my old USA made crowbars to pry the beads over the lips of the rims. The problem using anything but the smooth-edged tire irons is the risk of cutting or breaking the new tires when installing. These days, I'm not sure anyone is selling USA made tire irons? So, for now, I'll probably buy HF.
            John Clary
            Greer, SC

            SDC member since 1975

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ddub View Post
              Re: post 18. I wonder if the same jack stands weren't sold under other labels as well.
              Probably were, Don, but who knows?

              Note the fine print in the official recall notice. Two items stand out:

              1. It says the jack stands' failure could result in serious injury. No mention of death, just serious injury. (OK, I suppose death is a pretty serious injury! )

              2. If you return the defective jack stands, they will not give you your money back. All you get is a Harbor Freight Gift Card for the amount you paid. No mention of a receipt being required, so one must wonder how much of a Gift Card you'll get if you have a receipt, or if they will give you anything without a receipt.

              I had my last run-in with Harbor Freight about 4 years ago and haven't darkened their doorway since. I bought an air-powered grease gun because I was tired of manually pumping grease in all those Studebaker fittings. I did everything imaginable to get it to work; bled the air through the vent once the cartridge was installed, unscrewed the cylinder just enough to let grease ooze out in a solid column to indicate it had no air in it, etc., etc., etc. It made noise like it was trying to pump but nothing came out.

              I mean, I've been using grease guns for 60 years (really) and have had no trouble getting them to work.

              'Took the 'gun back to HF, having wasted a tube of grease, and they gave me another one. Same story; it just wouldn't work. 'Went back, having wasted another tube of grease, and demanded a refund. After much haggling and haranguing, the manager said the best she would do was give me a gift card; they would not refund my money, period.

              So I got a roll-around stool for doing brake work near ground level and a couple of small things to use up the gift card, left, and have not returned, nor will I ever.

              Their competitor Northern Tool has opened stores in the Indianapolis market, so I may try them if I think I need something. Has anyone had experience with Northern Tool?

              (Oh, and I paid an additional $12 for an air grease gun at NAPA and it has worked perfectly through about ten tubes of grease.) BP
              We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

              Ayn Rand:
              "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

              G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                ...Their competitor Northern Tool has opened stores in the Indianapolis market, so I may try them if I think I need something. Has anyone had experience with Northern Tool?...
                BP [/B]
                Bob, Northern Tool used to be called Northern Hydraulics. They were one of the early independent Wholesale style tool stores. Initially, they sold pretty high-grade tooling and seemed to cater to industrial accounts, as well as agriculture trades, and then expanded to a more friendly retailer to those of us who enjoy backyard mechanic and DIY work. Harbor Freight, if memory serves me right...was an "upstart" import company that toured the country with a tractor-trailer load of tools who would set up in parking lots, send out flyers in newspapers announcing their location & time, and sell out of their trucks for a couple of days and move on. Then Harbor Freight began establishing retail stores similar to Northern.

                Later, Northern Hydraulics became Northern Tool. Before Harbor Freight...it seemed that Northern Tool carried a higher grade of tools and brands. In certain products and tooling, they still do. But, to compete, they also have increased their volume of imports. My Milwaukee brand tools came from Northern, but you can also by your share of cheap offshore products there too. I believe the proliferation of Harbor Freight stores has pretty much forced them to in order to compete. My pressure washer came from Northern. On some products, Northern has to sell imports because domestic sources no longer exist. I will not swear to the correctness of my assessment, but I was shopping at a local Northern Hydraulics (tool) store before there was a brick & mortar Harbor Freight store in our region.
                John Clary
                Greer, SC

                SDC member since 1975

                Comment


                • #23
                  Thanks for the report, John. One of the new Indianapolis Northern Tool stores is convenient for me when on the way to babysit or attend church, so I'll investigate what they have 'next time I need something. BP
                  We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                  Ayn Rand:
                  "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                  G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                    Thanks for the report, John. One of the new Indianapolis Northern Tool stores is convenient for me when on the way to babysit or attend church, so I'll investigate what they have 'next time I need something. BP
                    Great, Bob. After you visit the store, I'd like to know what your thoughts are between the two businesses. For some odd reason, I value your opinion.
                    John Clary
                    Greer, SC

                    SDC member since 1975

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      My favorite machinist says that for most parts nothing is available made in usa at present. I'd have to agree on this one.....it is a matter of national security.
                      Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I don't think it's possible or realistic to buy only US only made goods. While in the MBA program, we had to read a fictional book about a TV manufacturing company in the midwest that went out of business due to foreign tv sales. The book talked about the auto industry for instance and how if we didn't have foreign car competing, we'd all be driving the equivalent of 1950's cars because competition wouldn't have led to an improvement in quality and technology. 1980's American cars for the most part are not the beacon of quality or performance. But American car companies looked at what Japan and Germany were building and I honestly think GM makes the best cars today. Yet many people still see Japanese cars as the best because of just how bad American cars were for a long time. I think Toyota and VW tried to chase largest company and cut corners on quality and are now working to fix it. Honda was so focused on quality and they let it slip for a while and are now trying to get back on track. GM seems led by their engineers finally and not their accountants. FIAT-Chrysler is struggling to get by and Chrysler's products date back to the time of dinasours :-)

                        And I'm not even sure what an "American" car is anymore. I'm a MOPAR fan, have owned a 2005 Magnum RT, a 2010 Challenger SRT8, 2 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokees, a 2015 Dodge Dart, and a 2016 Challenger Hellcat. But they were owned by the Germans and now the Italians. The Magnum and two Challengers were built in Canada, the Dart was heavily based on an Alfa Romeo, and the Grand Cherokees were based on Mercedes. Japanese car companies currently make 9 of the 15 most "American" made cars as of 2019, with Honda making 7 of the top 15. So is Honda "American"? It's such a complex question and answer that it's almost impossible to know what buying American means anymore.

                        I work for the Department of Veteran Affairs in Contracting; meaning I acquire goods and services for the VA. The Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR) requires almost all goods to be American made and companies who try and acquire non US made goods can get in big trouble. Check out the movie War Dogs about a couple guys who tried to cheat the Government and supply non US made guns as what can happen. But the Government readily acknowledges this mandate isn't to save money it's to support US products. It's a struggle at times, companies have to document that their goods are American made and often times have to document that the item is American made.

                        So I guess I'm ok with the globalization process. There isn't anything we can do about it and I think it truly drives innovation and creativity and ultimately we get better products. Look at the 2020 mid engined Corvette for instance. It's a total game changer for the sports car market and wouldn't have happened if it didn't have to compete with the best from around the world. Things change, generations or locations may suffer, but ultimately we are better off. And I grew up in the 1980s to early 2000's in South Bend so I've seen first hand what happens when a company goes out of business and how it can devastate a city. And I also have seen South Bend become reborn in the last 5-10 years and is probably a nicer place than it ever was due to the need to change to survive.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I haven't tried to take my jack stands back as I believe I have a 6 ton set purchased in about 2013 or so. I'll see what happens but if they give me a gift card for them, I'll be happy. I'll just buy an up dated set.

                          It's hard to believe anyone including Snapon or Matco would do any more than that with these items after all these years.

                          As far as receipts, for a number of years HF has emailed me one after every purchase so I have a file full on my computer. It's helped a couple of times when I had a issue with an item.

                          I'm not here defending HF because they are what they are but recently they have started to actually look like a more serious vendor with upgraded product lines and pretty decent customer service.

                          Bob

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                            I think you'd call this a related topic!

                            https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...0Non%20Openers
                            I have a pair of those red jacks, and one of them has been broken for several years. IIRC, I simply dropped it, and it broke. The broken part is the latch that engages the teeth on the notched shaft. I have never trusted the 2nd red jack since, and only use them for light duty jobs that I do not need to crawl under. I just use the books back at shortest length, as a prop more than anything. Probably should just toss them both. I have sworn off HF several months ago, and pretty sure I can live without their junk in my life from now on.

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                            • #29
                              All powerful nations peak and then decline. America peaked after WWII and is now in a period of decline. We will be replaced by China as the next world superpower, both economically and militarily, just as we replaced the British empire.
                              Dan Peterson
                              Montpelier, VT
                              1960 Lark V-8 Convertible
                              1960 Lark V-8 Convertible (parts car)

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                              • #30
                                Am I the only one who never uses the ratcheting system on jack stands? If they are not tall enough I simply add a board at least a couple inches larger than the base of the jack stand and feel confident with what will happen when under the vehicle.

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