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  • Buy USA

    I don't think this is political because neither party is ever going to make a difference. It will take John Q. public to refuse to buy Chinese products and demand made in USA.
    Yogi

  • #2
    Agree with the idea, but we really gotta be on our toes to avoid Chinese stuff. I just bought three u'joints for the 56J at NAPA last week (not in stock at SI). Did not notice till I went to log the part # in the maintenance log, NAPA, SKF UJ369, "Made In China".

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
      Agree with the idea, but we really gotta be on our toes to avoid Chinese stuff. I just bought three u'joints for the 56J at NAPA last week (not in stock at SI). Did not notice till I went to log the part # in the maintenance log, NAPA, SKF UJ369, "Made In China".
      Agreed: there are a lot times when there is no alternative, as no US- built versions of some things are available for purchase.

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      • #4
        Yes, this topic could be discussed without having to be political (but don't bet on it). As we have seen, there's hardly any subject that can escape someone wanting to use it to make those kinds of arguments. So, I would like to urge all of us who want to have an input to do our best to avoid getting political. That said, we all need to learn a word...pragmatism...meaning methods and practices that have the best chance of successful, desirable outcomes. In the case of this recent pandemic...there are apparently limits to global economic exchanges when we become over-dependent to meet our needs on others who might not be so trustworthy. Trust, dependability, and security is more important than essential needs at a cheap price.

        However, if we decided as a matter of principle to ditch all our China-sourced products...we would all probably have to quit this forum because our electronics would be gone. Just today, after seeing the news of what Apple caused by refusing to cooperate with the Justice Department, and FBI by causing an expensive agonizing delay in extracting evidence from a murdering terrorist's Apple phone...I feel like trashing my expensive iPhone. I'm not going to do that but when I get ready for a new one...you can bet I'll consider others. Problem is, will there be an acceptable alternative available?

        My prediction is that there will be a shift in our international business model going forward as we try to extricate ourselves from this dangerous dependency economic situation (especially for pharmaceutical and security related products). Hopefully, pragmatism (what works best) will return to the realm of reality over the Globalists theories.

        It took us over a couple of decades to get into this mess. We will not cure it in only a few days. However, the results of this mayhem, (hopefully), should make us a more cautious nation for years to come... until the pendulum swings again.
        John Clary
        Greer, SC

        SDC member since 1975

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        • #5
          Well stated, John (Post #4). Thanks. BP
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          Ayn Rand:
          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

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          • #6
            Not gonna try to defend the globalism that led to the (almost) demise of our domestic industrial capability, but like most things, it's a mixed blessing. A lot of people like to save money by going to a dollar store -- but they wouldn't exist if their contents were made in the US, Think back 30 years or so -- one had to go to several different mom-and-pop stores to buy the products that are now made in China that we now find in a single Walmart or dollar store. We used to support a much larger domestic industrial base AND more local business establishments -- but it cost us a lot more when we went shopping. The govt leaders who made the globalism decisions in the 80s and 90s concluded that we wanted cheap consumer goods more than we wanted armies of blue-collar jobs. They knew the risks, but may very well have underestimated the inevitable backlash.
            Last edited by Skip Lackie; 05-19-2020, 12:33 PM.
            Skip Lackie

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            • #7
              In 1967, when my then wife worked for the R.E. Dietz Lighting Company, the entire business was located in one building...manufacturing, assembly, Shipping, etc. The manufactured parts would move through the building before the finished products were Shipped out to Retailers. The Company found it was much cheaper to manufacture the parts, ship them to Taiwan, have them assembled there, then have them Shipped back and distributed from the Company Plant here...at the other end of the building. They then increased their bottom line by entirely closing the Plant here, and having the parts made/assembled in Taiwan. "The Government" had nothing to do with it...the bottom line was what drove this practice. As time went by, this practice, by one after another American Companies, got refinded to an art....with the help of "the Government'' (NAFTA, etc). Mo money, mo money, mo money.

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              • #8
                A business owner told me one time that he could sum up all the business classes in one simple statement: “Make a product as cheap as you can while employing the fewest people possible at the lowest salary.”

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 345 DeSoto View Post
                  In 1967, when my then wife worked for the R.E. Dietz Lighting Company, the entire business was located in one building...manufacturing, assembly, Shipping, etc. The manufactured parts would move through the building before the finished products were Shipped out to Retailers. The Company found it was much cheaper to manufacture the parts, ship them to Taiwan, have them assembled there, then have them Shipped back and distributed from the Company Plant here...at the other end of the building. They then increased their bottom line by entirely closing the Plant here, and having the parts made/assembled in Taiwan. "The Government" had nothing to do with it...the bottom line was what drove this practice. As time went by, this practice, by one after another American Companies, got refinded to an art....with the help of "the Government'' (NAFTA, etc). Mo money, mo money, mo money.
                  It didn't take long either to figure out if made or assembled in China, OSHA and EPA regs could be skirted. So the incentive of avoiding expensive compliance measures became part of the mo money equation.

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                  • #10
                    Agreed Joe.

                    Buying the same items
                    more cheaply = keeps more money in pockets = makes one feel wealthier...at the expense of domestic manufacturing jobs.

                    It’s a fools errand, yet I’m guilty alongside others for buying offshore tools and PPE and equipment as an example. Honest to goodness handymen and mechanics here will scoff at Harbor freight but I’m right there with them, shopping.

                    Where do we all agree to start and change the game?? Agree to pay more for nails and screws and sandpaper etc and work upwards would be a start. The problem is when a Dollar General opens up in our neighborhoods with offshore goods and tends to do exceptionally well. Try telling the folks with less in their pockets to pay more - best of luck.

                    Sadly, too much water has flowed to go back. We’re used to paying next to nothing and wanting the good life at the expense of jobs.

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                    • #11
                      I have to agree with about everything that has been said, But when this crap is over and school starts back, we better add Chinese language to the curriculum. We need to wake up to what is happening!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jclary View Post
                        My prediction is that there will be a shift in our international business model going forward as we try to extricate ourselves from this dangerous dependency economic situation (especially for pharmaceutical and security related products).
                        There should be no more world wars as the ability to assemble armaments can no longer be done in any one country any longer when you factor in all steps of gathering the raw materials, smelting & refining, casting, assembly and sub-assemblies, etc.

                        Craig

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                        • #13
                          I would hope we will eventually come to understand everyone all over the world has something to offer to others; and we will all be better off when we learn to share what we have most of instead of denying it, and accept what others have to offer, rather than fearing it.

                          The alternative is to return to living in caves.
                          "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

                          Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
                          Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
                          sigpic'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rockne10 View Post
                            ... we will all be better off when we learn to share ...
                            Said the Orca to the seal...the Bear to the Salmon... the Wolf to the Caribou... the Fox to the Rabbit... the Snake to the Mouse... the King to the serf... The Robber...the extortionist...the molester...???

                            Who will be the aggressive virtue signaling moralist that will evolve with the power to impose this change of "NATURE????"
                            Last edited by jclary; 05-19-2020, 01:44 PM. Reason: according to my spellchecker...cariboo and caribou are both correct. I chose to go with caribou
                            John Clary
                            Greer, SC

                            SDC member since 1975

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                            • #15
                              Nothing is black and white. The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade was signed in 1947 and was intended to lift war-torn nations out of poverty by reducing tariffs in the prosperous countries (like the US and Canada), thereby giving them an opportunity to develop domestic (low-skilled) industries. The GATT was successful, but was more progress in reducing tariffs was considered to be beneficial to all concerned. So the GATT was succeeded by the World Trade Organization in 1994. It was a formal organization, not just an agreement. The PRC joined in 2001, after 15 years of difficult negotiations. It was only then that the flood of Chinese products really began -- and the evidence began accumulating about Chinese cheating.

                              The assumption was always that enough new, high-tech jobs would be created in the West to absorb the workers that lost their jobs to China and the other low-wage countries in Asia. Obviously, that didn't happen exactly as planned. But some of the benefits were real. Cell phones and other electronics would cost three or four times as much if they were made in North America or Europe, and that huge array of inexpensive, colorful plastic toys that your grandchildren play with would simply not be available at all. You make your choices, and live with the consequences.
                              Skip Lackie

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