Question Answered: Why 44% don't have a clue....

[Packard53]

Bob Palma: I mowed six lawns a week for nearly 6 years from when I was a kid and cleaned a women's house one summer while she was working. In January 1968 when I was senior in high school I joined the Naval Reserves and attended monthly reserve meetings until I got called at to active duty in May of 1969. That summer of 1968 fresh out of school I went to boot camp. I went to Vietnam in August of 1969 and came home one year later a changed young man. The bottom line is I was serving my country while still in high school. What were you doing your senior year in high school. Please tell us all since you have been so busy telling what you did when you were wet behind the ears.

John S.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Dick S. - How is "youth" defined for the graphs that you show?

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics defines "youth" as 16-24.

This subject is a great example of confirmation bias (a.k.a. selective perception bias)...This is our tendency to pay closer attention to evidence and arguments that support our own firmly held conclusions, and to simply discount contradictory evidence." (I'm guilty, BTW).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...hat-we-believe

[wittsend]

I had the standard, mow lawns, paper route (Grade school/Jr. High) and any odd job that came my way. As a kid a steady job (such as a paper route) was very difficult when your parents insisted that you go away with them. It was very difficult to find someone to fill in and often occurred with disastrous results. I was not allowed to have a "regular" job while in high school because my mother and stepfather said they didn't want my grades to suffer. This was somewhat perplexing because they also told me that, "They couldn't afford to send me to college" so exceptional grades (that I wasn't capable of anyway - at best I was a "B" student) seemed a mote point.

A few days after graduation I was in the hospital having surgery to repair a torn hamstring from a track & field injury. This was necessary as I only had about 60 days remaining on my parents health insurance before I turned 18. The recovery prevented me from working for five months. In that time I was removed from the health insurance and - oh well, never had physical therapy as I had no job to pay for it and my parents felt at 18 it was my responsibility. I remember at my second post op visit my mother telling the doctor I would not be back and he reluctantly suggested a few exercises I might do. Had I not needed the surgery I would have immediately upon graduation been expected to get a job and pay rent at home - which after my recovery I did.

I contrast that with young adults today remaining on their parents insurance until they are 26 as many sit around waiting for their "Go Fund Me" to finance their dreams.

[8E45E]

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics defines "youth" as 16-24.

This subject is a great example of confirmation bias (a.k.a. selective perception bias)...This is our tendency to pay closer attention to evidence and arguments that support our own firmly held conclusions, and to simply discount contradictory evidence." (I'm guilty, BTW).

That would make sense as statistics are kept for that, where income tax returns would have to be filed with the IRS when one obtains a legitimate 'payroll job', be it full-time, or an after-school part time job such as working at a retail store or restaurant, for example. As far as I know, no one under 16 who has delivered newspapers or mowed lawns has never had to file with the IRS, nor has their 'employer' ever declared it as an expense, though someone who has worked for a newspaper can explain how it was done in the case of a carrier.

Craig

[wittsend]

At least here in the So. Cal. area (suburban, bedroom community) I live there are no more "kids" with paper routes. I think it might be a liability thing??? Every paper I've had delivered in the past 10 years or more (likely more) has been by an adult in a car. It leaves one to wonder other than fast food what jobs are readily available to the under 18 age group today.

[rockne10]

Government statistics on youth employment probably start being accumulated when the youth income starts getting reported to the IRS and SSA, and withheld from a paycheck.
I didn't even apply for a SS card until I was 16 and applying for full time employment.
But, at age 6 I received a loom to make potholders with jersey loops; sold them for 15¢ or 2 for 25¢. People would order them in colors to complement their kitchen.
At 9 I began selling Christmas cards door to door from a Wallace Brown ad I saw in Boys' Life. Within a month I accumulated $60 and walked in to Pittsburgh National Bank and opened a checking account. Then walked across the street to Hanover Shoes and bought a pair of cordovan leather dress shoes. They were indeed spiffy! Wrote a check for them. The salesman called the bank. The check was good.
By twelve I had a list of regular customers; at least one of them would call me the week after July 4, which was when I received my samples. From time to time when money got tight, dad would borrow from me.
At 16, when I actually got on someone's payroll, I turned my Christmas card empire over to my sister.
Worked part time while in school; full time over the summer all through college. Then started my permanent job the night before graduation and retired 40 years later. Goofed off for two years and am now helping 4 hours a day at a friend's business.
Everything there explains why I am a fiscal conservative, and a social liberal. I never earned a penny by taking a portion of it from others.

[Skip Lackie]

My first "real" job was summer employment at an amusement park: three months, 6.5 hours a day (plus 1 hour for lunch and coffee breaks), 7 days a week. I was 16, which was the youngest that New York state would permit. Was paid 87 1/2 cents an hour. The big advantage was I didn't get off work until 11 PM. which meant that I got to drive my 36 DeSoto home IN THE DARK. At the time, NY prohibited drivers under 18 from driving at night unless they were going to/from work or a school function. Being allowed to drive at night made the whole thing worthwhile to a 16-year old.

Will retire next week after working for a total of 61+ years, 56 of which were in US Navy oceanographic research.

[BobPalma]

My first "real" job was summer employment at an amusement park: three months, 6.5 hours a day (plus 1 hour for lunch and coffee breaks), 7 days a week. I was 16, which was the youngest that New York state would permit.

You drank coffee at age 16, Skip? Oh, the horror!

Congrats on the retirement; I assure you, you'll be busier than when you were "working." BP

[JoeHall]

That would make sense as statistics are kept for that, where income tax returns would have to be filed with the IRS when one obtains a legitimate 'payroll job', be it full-time, or an after-school part time job such as working at a retail store or restaurant, for example. As far as I know, no one under 16 who has delivered newspapers or mowed lawns has never had to file with the IRS, nor has their 'employer' ever declared it as an expense, though someone who has worked for a newspaper can explain how it was done in the case of a carrier.

Craig

According to my social security readout, I have paid in since 14 years old, so it was probably the Western Auto, ESSO, and/or two grocery stores I worked at, that withheld taxes. I also worked in hay and tobacco several summers since about 12, but pretty sure those jobs were below the table. In the OP, youth were defined as 16-19. I do not consider 20-24 as youth. Heck, I was a SSGT in the Marine Corp at 24, and did not even consider myself a youth when I joined, at 17. LOL

I have told my kids school is their job, and encourage them to do as well as possible. Immediately after high school graduation, my 18 year old daughter worked all summer at Baskin & Robins, till she left for college in August. She plans to work there again during holiday break this December-January. If possible, I will also have her working in the admin office, where I work.

I support high schoolers' working, ASAP. If not prepping for college, then go to work while still in high school. Buy their own car, cell phone, video games, etc., instead of asking parents. I call it learning life on life's terms.

[bob40]

Paper routes can be dismissed or at least downgraded as delivery of newspapers has dwindled over the years.It has been discussed on this forum with many former paper in hands readers have switched to the digital version.
I live in a small town in a area that is still predominately rural and have to think the issue Mr.Palma brought up could possibly be more of a big city issue? I understand the survey was 8.3 million kids over a 40 year period my question is where were the samples taken?
I have no problem getting youngsters from families I know and more importantly they know me to 'work for pay' on jobs I need help on.The kids want to earn some money. Kids who want to work will find work. Our local grocery store,convenience stores and our only fast food joint have rotated high schools students in and out for the 30+ years I have lived here and talking to the owners they get more qualified hard workers than the shiftless type.The lazy ones have always been a part of the 44%. It's always been that way if one reflects on their peer groups growing up in any era.

[t walgamuth]

This is in response to post #18.....
I contrast that with young adults today remaining on their parents insurance until they are 26 as many sit around waiting for their "Go Fund Me" to finance their dreams.


I don't know any that are doing that.

[wittsend]

This is in response to post #18.....
I contrast that with young adults today remaining on their parents insurance until they are 26 as many sit around waiting for their "Go Fund Me" to finance their dreams.

I don't know any that are doing that.

Well something inspired this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGvrmltfMrA . I taught Television Production at a local community college (often referred to as high school with ash trays) in So. Cal. for 23 years. You wouldn't believe the number of students that thought they were "suffering for the craft" and in reality were going nowhere - for a real long time. With the advent of "Go Fund Me" a number think their lives now have a free ride. I'm not by any means saying it is all of them, but it is too many of them. Maybe that is just the contrast of my So. Cal. "Bedroom Community" and a more conservative mid-west life.

[JoeHall]

I agree with most of the above, and probably at least 44% have no clue where $ come from. For the rest, busting our butts early helps, "learn to fish" and eat for a lifetime. But that contrasts sharply, with the 44% who prefer to simply wait on fish to be served. Rather than manual labor, they seek careers in, "cognitive labor", believing we can import millions of lower class folks for manual labor, to provide services to them, the educated. Then there's the attitude that our system owes them an education; they then seek degrees on "top ten" lists of most useless degrees, i.e. liberal arts. Other degrees require intensive cognitive and manual labor, and many just are not up to the chore, i.e. medical and legal. Then too, a portion of that 44% prefer to simply, "live off the system"; they apply for welfare benefits either through claims of disability such as, "anxiety", or become pregnant. Then of course, there is the criminal element: "if I want what you have, I just need to figure out a way to take it from you...". Then stir in a national drug abuse epidemic, which affects far more than 44%. Much of youth's attitude is learned from primary caregivers, probably more than 44% of parents are absent, or if present, they provide negative influence. So, not sure if its a youth, or an adult problem, or maybe both.

Scary, but Plato wrote of many of the same problems with youth attitude, around 450 B.C. So when it comes to youth and human nature, not much is new under the sun. Technology, however, is changing in leaps and bounds, but that's a whole nother issue. LOL

[Skip Lackie]

You drank coffee at age 16, Skip? Oh, the horror!

Congrats on the retirement; I assure you, you'll be busier than when you were "working." BP

Thanks. And good point on the coffee -- it was probably a Coke. The job was in a hot dog stand, so I ate our own product (which I had to pay for). Cokes were 25 and 35 cents, hot dogs 25, hamburgers 30, cheeseburgers 35. Inventory control made sure we paid for what we consumed.

[JRoberts]

I hear stuff all the time about how kids today don't work, etc., etc., etc. Like many of you when I was young, very young, I mowed lawns, delivered newspapers, sold Christmas card, bagged groceries and a few other things. Today most of these jobs are either not available or not safe. I would not let my 5th grade kid pedal 6 miles delivering newspapers before sunup, nor would i want him or her going door to door collecting money for those subscriptions. The same goes for selling anything door to door. In our area both newspapers and lawn mowing are done by adults who deliver ( in the case of our area) over a hundred newspapers and never collect money (that has to be sent in by mail ) ad with most of the lawn mowing being down by guys who come by with a trailer full of mowers and such and knock out your lawn in a short amount to time for 60 to 100+ bucks a shot. As has been said earlier working in other types of jobs here cannot be done by those under 16 and from what I see at my local grocery store, many of the baggers, etc are high school kids. Other jobs for younger folks include baby sitting, but few if any want boys to do that work and I am not sure I would want a daughter younger than 17 to baby sit late the way things are that time of night. It is easy to blame youth for all sorts of things but I think we need to see why things are the way they are before we begin to criticize.

Oh, and I didn't walk up hill both to and from school in the freezing rain and snow