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Amber vs White lenses.... A different view

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  • Amber vs White lenses.... A different view

    Just received an email from Dan Stern, the Lighting guru. He was reading an article on my site regarding the evolution of the 64 Avanti
    Link - http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1...964avanti.html

    and noticed an anomaly regarding the amber vs white lens issue. So he sent a dissertation on the actual pulse of the advances at that time. very interesting read...

    link - http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/...stern2016.html
    64 GT Hawk (K7)
    1970 Avanti (R3)

  • #2
    Both the original article by Fred Fox and the article by Daniel Stern are excellent reading!

    Chris.

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    • #3
      While Mr Stern's central thrust (the Feds didn't do it cause the FMVSS didn't exist) is correct, he doesn't give proper credit to the Society of Automotive Engineers, which was the guiding light behind the cooperation between the auto makers and the states -- and the pre-FMVSS equivalent of the NHTSA and the DOT. SAE established standards for all sorts of automotive parts and functions (as an example, pre-1968 clearance lamps always carry "SAE" and the date the design was approved). When the SAE recommended a change (eg, sealed beam headlights in 1940, amber parking lights in 1963), nearly all auto manufacturers and nearly all states complied. Some states complied by actually putting those recommendations into law and/or regulation. The states and DC mentioned in Service Letter J-1964-7 all had state inspection stations that enforced those regs -- either correctly or incorrectly. As a result, you find many references that state that amber parking lights were considered "mandatory" in the US in 1963 -- not because the Feds mandated it, but because the automotive community always abided by SAE recommendations.
      Skip Lackie

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Skip Lackie View Post
        While Mr Stern's central thrust .......
        Skip, I mentioned you and your provenance... He said he'd like to chat with you.....

        Here's his email address.. consult AT danielsternlighting DOT com or do you want me to give him yours?
        64 GT Hawk (K7)
        1970 Avanti (R3)

        Comment


        • #5
          Both really Great Stories.
          Talk about useless trivia and unnecessary Government intervention though! OMG! (No Political Parties mentioned here!)

          It makes ABSOLUTELTY NO difference in the final result, you do not use the Parking or Turn Lights when they are OFF, so what does it matter what Color the Lenses are.
          What matters is, they both are the more obvious AMBER easily noticed in a field of White Headlights when Lit.

          This reminds me of the Stupid requirement in the 1970's to DATE, to add Side Marker Lights!

          What were they thinking? it would be WAY MORE effective to have side Marker TURN SIGNALS than clearance Lights or just Both, but to this Day no one has required them, not in U.S.A. anyway!

          You have a WAY bigger chance of someone Sideswiping you because they were not looking and you were not expecting it, than someone Broadsiding you in an intersection, because they did not SEE you.

          Sure a few Cars have side visible Turn Signals in either front or rear but usually not both, but still not required.
          Last edited by StudeRich; 08-11-2016, 07:44 PM.
          StudeRich
          Second Generation Stude Driver,
          Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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          • #6
            Years ago, when I had my '62 GT Hawk, I recall converting the turn signals and parking lights to amber. However, I did not change the clear lens. I used amber bulbs. Also, I did not do it for anything more than my personal satisfaction of tinkering with the car. I thought the jet black Hawk with the amber flickering though those clear lens looked... "Kool."
            John Clary
            Greer, SC

            SDC member since 1975

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            • #7
              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
              This reminds me of the Stupid requirement in the 1970's to DATE, to add Side Marker Lights!

              What were they thinking? it would be WAY MORE effective to have side Marker TURN SIGNALS than clearance Lights or just Both, but to this Day no one has required them, not in U.S.A. anyway!

              You have a WAY bigger chance of someone Sideswiping you because they were not looking and you were not expecting it, than someone Broadsiding you in an intersection, because they did not SEE you.

              Sure a few Cars have side visible Turn Signals in either front or rear but usually not both, but still not required.
              I take a different few on a couple of these points. First, as an amateur historian, I find this kind of "useless trivia" fascinating.
              Secondly, my Champ can be nearly invisible from the side at night. Side marker lights would be a good idea, though frankly one I'm not likely to follow through on because I don't want to compromise the fenders.
              But Rich, I wholeheartedly agree that side turn signals are a better idea than just side markers.
              Mike Davis
              Regional Manager, North Carolina
              1964 Champ 8E7-122 "Stuey"

              Comment


              • #8
                You can have both if you wire it so !!!
                One wire to the front marker light other to the front turn signal.
                The result will be you will have side markers that will flash when you operate the turn signal.
                Most side markers are of plastic construction with cap less bulbs so no ground on it.
                The same can be done if you have rear side markers too
                Geoff

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                • #9
                  I always thought it was Neat the way the Old 70's GMC Trucks did it.
                  They wired the side marker Light on the Front Fender to the Turn Signal with a Diode in line and no ground, so when the Turn Signal Flashes, the ground is lost on the marker light and it Flashes off.

                  That way the Marker light only needs a Single filament Bulb, single contact socket and ONE Wire.

                  It seems to me that this would only work at Night though, because you would have to have the Headlights or Parking Lights ON, to light the Markers, so they could flash OFF alternately from the Turn Signals on Turns.
                  StudeRich
                  Second Generation Stude Driver,
                  Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No Rich they work during the day time too.
                    Just find one of the plastic side markers that uses a single filament two wire cap less bulb.
                    There usually the type where you just quarter turn the holder into the light housing.
                    Put a crocodile clip on each wire and connect them as stated in my post
                    You will see it works on the turn signal with no marker light on just as well as it does with the marker light illuminated.
                    Geoff
                    Last edited by fiveftsix; 08-11-2016, 10:51 PM.

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                    • #11
                      OK, this is my first time hearing this term "Capless Bulb" so maybe its those tiny, all Glass marker bulbs with only wires at the Base, they are not Bayonet, Brass Based like all I am used to.
                      You must trying to say that they have Two Hot wires and No Ground?
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                      • #12
                        Daniel Stern is THE lighting guru. I have used him many times over the years and am always impressed with his breadth of knowledge and willingness to assist in whatever I'm doing (lighting wise). He's a guy you can trust and support.
                        Bill

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                        • #13
                          Yes Rich, that is exactly the type of bulb I`m referring to
                          I don`t know how else to describe them other than saying cap less !!
                          And yes to them being groundless too
                          Normally one of the wires would got to live while the other would go to ground
                          But if you wire it as I mentioned in my earlier post you will find it will react as I quoted.
                          And will work both with the marker light on or off.
                          You can try it out using a couple of crocodile clips without mounting the marker in a fender just to see for yourself if you happen to have one kicking around.
                          It works just like a badly grounded rear tail light which I`m sure most have experienced sometime or other when a turn signal is then switched on.
                          I`ve done this many times to make a side markers flash on a turn.
                          Geoff

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                          • #14
                            Geoff, is this wedge base bulb what you are talking about?

                            Click image for larger version

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                            Rick
                            Kingman, AZ

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                            • #15
                              Yes Rick, So it appears to be called a wedge base bulb !!! lol
                              learn something new everyday !!!!
                              I quoted those bulbs because they appear to be the ones used in the modern type plastic side markers.
                              That can be wired to perform both marker and turn signal.
                              Older ones are more intricate to alter due to a metal base and the possibility of being internally grounded.
                              But just with that bulb you can try it out wired as I mentioned temporary to see the result.
                              Geoff

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