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Buying a 1959 Studebaker Lark

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  • #31
    My 59 Lark had the Dark Green carpet. I have NOT found anyone with matching fabric to cover door panels with. I THOUGHT I found a set of seat covers for my 2 door, but after multiple attempts at communication, the vendor has never replied.

    As far as carpet, I ended up just buying a chunk of heavy duty outdoor carpet in tan from Home Depot in order to have carpet on the floor. I will change it later as needed.

    I have checked into an upholstery shop to have the seats recovered and no one can seem to match the fabric. Even something only sort of close is still in the $1200 per seat to recover range.

    I used some organic soap and water and a scrub brush to clean my door panels and they turned out pretty clean. Still not perfect, but much nicer than they've been for 30 years......

    Maybe we need to get together and have a run of fabric made to match this particular style for the seats as well as the door panels.
    Dis-Use on a Car is Worse Than Mis-Use...
    1959 Studebaker Lark VIII 2DHTP

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by 63avanti. View Post
      Just a little update.... Unfortunately I was not able to get the car ready in time for my wedding... The further we dug into the car the more issues we found that needed to be addressed regardless of what I was told when I first purchased the car...

      I Ended up rebuilding the motor, fabricated a dual exhaust system, went through the brake system and last but not least blasted and painted the wheels.

      also had transmission issues recently and that is out and being rebuilt...


      The only thing I have been pondering is the interior. I'm assuming from the age and staining that it is original...


      Does anyone make the door panels or carpet for my car? Or am I better off trying to find someone to do a custom interior to best match what I have? What would have been the original carpet color for my car with the sea mist green paint and green interior?

      [ATTACH=CONFIG]62480[/ATTACH]
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]62481[/ATTACH]
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]62482[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]62483[/ATTACH]
      I have received samples from SMS fabrics for my '61 Regal wagon (with a taupe/metallic silver/brown tri tone interior!), and they are spot- on. Same with the carpet. They also do door panel work and quoted me $837 for all four panels. I figured I would do that this year, and then save up and have my local upholster do the seats next year, using fabric bought at SMS. https://www.smsautofabrics.com/
      Dean Seavers
      Sacramento, CA

      Comment


      • #33
        It is my understanding that replacement '59 grills were not available during the '59 production year. A good one will be hard to find, but very few folks will notice if you use a '60 grill, especially if you use the '59 badge and put in the correct location.
        Joe Roberts
        '61 R1 Champ
        '65 Cruiser
        Eastern North Carolina Chapter

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 63avanti. View Post

          *The only key for the ignition is severely bent and almost un-useable.
          Your keys should be Yale lock cylinders with a Y-133 keys for the ignition and the doors and a Y-12 or a Y-14 key for the trunk and glovebox. Below is some information that may help you replace your keys, if you haven't done so already. I did a lot of research on Studebaker key sets and below is some info that was helpful to me. That said, I have a key cutting machine, so I needed to know as much about the locks as possible to reproduce the most accurate keys I could.

          Source: "A Look Back at Vintage Auto Locks" by Gale Johnson On Sep 3, 2010

          Studebaker
          Early Studebakers from the 1931-1940 used wafer keys and keyway O1122A. 1941-1949 models used an X1199AR blank for the door and ignition with the O1122A keyway continuing for trunk locks. 1949-1952 models often used Hurd locks with the same Ilco 1125H keyway as 1932-1951 Ford. Studebaker went back to the X1199AR blank from 1952-1965. Ilco O1122A blanks were used during 1952-1965 for trunk locks.

          Compared to all other cars on the road, Studebakers of the 1950s caused the most headaches for locksmiths. Door cylinders are held by an internal retainer. The door skin is so narrow that a human hand cannot get inside to reach the retainer. A special tool is needed to access the retainer from above after removing the outer door handle. Another problem is the door/ignition depth and space system. An unusual .018 depth increment is used with depth #1 starting at .222.

          ==========

          Some of the technical info may sound a bit wonky, but your locksmith may not have the aforementioned specs available since these cars became extinct decades ago. Some of the older locksmith will be able to cut a key from a set of "Depth and Space" keys given the depth increment and starting position listed above. -- Good luck.
          Last edited by SergioG; 03-01-2017, 10:08 PM.
          Best Regards,
          Sergio
          1948 Champion Regal Deluxe

          Comment


          • #35
            Please find the CORRECT information in Post #27, Original Studebaker logo Key Blanks are available New that FIT your Hurd Door and Ignition Locks, '59 Lark VIII's were the LAST Year to have Hurd Locks, not Yale, they were used on 6's and Champions.

            Aftermarket Keys are not needed since the real deal is available cheaper and better.
            The aftermarket Locksmith replacement Key Blank item numbers given in Post #34 MAY be correct IF you can find them now, but the applications are incorrect.
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
              Ign./Doors and Glovebox/Trunk: ('47-'59 Champions, 6's and All '60-'62) have Yale.

              They used Hurd (skinny shank, short, 5 Cuts as on Ford, Merc. & Lincoln) on most '47-'59 Commanders & V8 Cars.

              Locks are the same in the Glove Box and the Trunk, they are the little cheapie 4 Tumbler/Cut Locks that if you have 4 different Keys, One or Two of 4 will open any lock! They are similar to a desk drawer Lock/Key.
              StudeRich, I find your post quite interesting... in my post (#34), I explained that the cylinders used by Studebaker were Yale cylinders as well as Hurd. You do the same... I also explained that the Glovebox and the Trunk use the same key, and the Ignition and the Doors do as well. You state the same. OK, nothing incorrect there... I further provided key blank information that IS CORRECT. There is nothing incorrect about what I stated. The Y-133 key is for the ignition/doors and the Y-12 key is for the trunk/glovebox. Yet, you consider that INCORRECT. How so? -- I never stated that those blanks were "original blanks." I simply tried to help and stated that those were blanks that would work on the gentleman's lock cylinders - which BTW it will! (Quite frankly I found "original" Studebaker blanks to be very hard to find and the aftermarket brands to be readily available.)

              Also, your assertion that the Yale blanks I mentioned in my post are not available. -- The Y-133 and Y-12 key blanks are most defiantly available and can be ordered online at (http://mysecuritypro.com/search.aspx?find=studebaker). I suggested ILCO key blanks because they ARE so easy to find.

              Now...lets get to "INCORRECT" shall we... You stated the following: "Locks are the same in the Glove Box and the Trunk, they are the little cheapie 4 Tumbler/Cut Locks that if you have 4 different Keys, One or Two of 4 will open any lock! They are similar to a desk drawer Lock/Key."

              Clearly you've never taken a glovebox cylinder apart, because if you had...you would never have said something that was so wrong! The glovebox cylinder, which is a YALE cylinder on the 47-52 Champions is a five (Yes...5) wafer cylinder. (Oh BTW...the correct terminology is "wafer" not "tumbler"). The wafers are numbered 0 - 4, which means there are 5 (sizes 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4). The technical data I provided in my post regarding the Depth and Spacing is also correct, because I not only found it in textbook format, I verified it with a micrometer.

              I also provided very sound advice - take the cylinders to a Locksmith, give him the Depth and Spacing information I provided, and the Locksmith would definitely have been able to recut new original keys, which is better than cutting a copy of a copy.

              So, my point is the following...I may be new to the forum and I may not have as many years of experience in the world of Studebaker as you certainly have, but don't be so quick to dismiss someone's assistance to a fellow member as "NOT CORRECT" before you verify it for yourself.
              Last edited by SergioG; 03-03-2017, 12:19 AM.
              Best Regards,
              Sergio
              1948 Champion Regal Deluxe

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by SergioG View Post
                StudeRich, I find your post quite interesting... in my post (#34), I explained that the cylinders used by Studebaker were Yale cylinders as well as Hurd. You do the same... I also explained that the Glovebox and the Trunk use the same key, and the Ignition and the Doors do as well. You state the same. OK, nothing incorrect there... I further provided key blank information that IS CORRECT. There is nothing incorrect about what I stated. The Y-133 key is for the ignition/doors and the Y-12 key is for the trunk/glovebox. Yet, you consider that INCORRECT. How so? -- I never stated that those blanks were "original blanks." I simply tried to help and stated that those were blanks that would work on the gentleman's lock cylinders - which BTW it will! (Quite frankly I found "original" Studebaker blanks to be very hard to find and the aftermarket brands to be readily available.)

                Also, your assertion that the Yale blanks I mentioned in my post are not available. -- The Y-133 and Y-12 key blanks are most defiantly available and can be ordered online at (http://mysecuritypro.com/search.aspx?find=studebaker). I suggested ILCO key blanks because they ARE so easy to find.

                Now...lets get to "INCORRECT" shall we... You stated the following: "Locks are the same in the Glove Box and the Trunk, they are the little cheapie 4 Tumbler/Cut Locks that if you have 4 different Keys, One or Two of 4 will open any lock! They are similar to a desk drawer Lock/Key."

                Clearly you've never taken a glovebox cylinder apart, because if you had...you would never have said something that was so wrong! The glovebox cylinder, which is a YALE cylinder on the 47-52 Champions is a five (Yes...5) wafer cylinder. (Oh BTW...the correct terminology is "wafer" not "tumbler"). The wafers are numbered 0 - 4, which means there are 5 (sizes 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4). The technical data I provided in my post regarding the Depth and Spacing is also correct, because I not only found it in textbook format, I verified it with a micrometer.

                I also provided very sound advice - take the cylinders to a Locksmith, give him the Depth and Spacing information I provided, and the Locksmith would definitely have been able to recut new original keys, which is better than cutting a copy of a copy.

                So, my point is the following...I may be new to the forum and I may not have as many years of experience in the world of Studebaker as you certainly have, but don't be so quick to dismiss someone's assistance to a fellow member as "NOT CORRECT" before you verify it for yourself.
                Hey Sergio.
                You did good. Don't take it too personally. StudeRich does this quite often. You can see by his 25 thousand posts that he has quite a few opinions on just about everything. Not all of them can be right.
                Some of us appreciate input such as yours. Keep up the good work.
                sals54

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by SergioG View Post
                  "Your keys should be Yale lock cylinders with a Y-133 keys for the ignition and the doors and a Y-12 or a Y-14 key for the trunk and glovebox."

                  Wrong, his Car is a '59 Lark VIII with Hurd locks.

                  "1941-1949 models used an X1199AR blank for the door and ignition with the O1122A keyway continuing for trunk locks. 1949-1952 models often used Hurd locks with the same Ilco 1125H keyway as 1932-1951 Ford."

                  WRONG, the Hurd Locks were used up to 1959.

                  "Studebaker went back to the X1199AR blank from 1952-1965. Ilco O1122A blanks were used during 1952-1965 for trunk locks."

                  Wrong, those Yale Blanks will not replace the '63, or the '64 to '66 single lengthwise grooving type Keys used with the built-in water/dust Door Locks.
                  The X1199AR only works up to 1962, also NOT for Commanders & Eight Cylinder Cars/Larks, Hawks, 1947 to 1959.

                  But one of the problems with this is no one understands, needs, cares or can find these Old locksmith Generic, replacement keys, so all these aftermarket Key Blank Numbers do not matter anyway.
                  Thanks for attempting to help with all that BOOK of data though, that had to take a while to research.
                  Now Who is WRONG?

                  I am sorry that you copied Gale Johnson's incorrect info, it is not really YOUR fault, it's AL Gore's for inventing the internet!
                  Last edited by StudeRich; 03-03-2017, 12:46 PM.
                  StudeRich
                  Second Generation Stude Driver,
                  Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Rich,
                    I know you know what you know, but you haven't taken into account the myriad of times and places that Studebaker did things different from what has ended up in print, or said to be the only option.
                    Many times folks have found on their cars, certain parts, paints, patterns and mechanical options which were "never" offered by the factory. So it seems to me that regardless of what is "supposed" to be done by the factory, it may not be the case at all.
                    We've all seen the stories of folks who ordered their cars with parts or pieces which may not have been originally optioned on the model they chose, but Studebaker chose to make the exception in order to make the sale.
                    So it may very well be the case that certain door locks or key cylinders were either left over from stock on the shelf and used in models other than what the Studebaker Bible says it should have been.
                    It just seems to me that to state, categorically, that you're right and the rest of the world is wrong, is a little over the top. Especially when we have plenty of supporting evidence that things are not always as they seem... especially in Studebakerland.
                    sals54

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      StudeRich, clearly you are a wealth of knowledge...can you provide the source of your information? If I'm wrong, I'm man enough to learn from someone that can teach those of us that have less experience than Gurus like yourself...however, can you please provide your source of information? Where did you get all these wonderful specs that Al Gore didn't share with us? -- You do have a source right? I know I provided my sources...if they're ALL wrong, then WOW...you simply can't trust a lock and key manufacturer can you!

                      What isn't wrong is the part where you told this gentleman that his lock cylinders has 4 "tumbler"...I'm still laughing at that one...but I'm too polite to shove it in your face that you didn't know what you were talking about, and didn't even know what to call the "wafers"...come on, repeat after me...wwwaaafffeerrss BTW, just because the larges "WAFER" is #4, its doesn't mean there are 4 wafers (tumbles for you). They start at 0 and work up to 4...hence 5 wafers and NO...you cannot use 4 keys and two of the will open the locks. That simply BS if you believe that.

                      You know StudeRich those that really know there **** are usually humble and treat others with respect. If you disagree with something someone says...simply point out that you have other information that is contrary to that posted. I've been on forums like this for decades...I've seen people like you that think they walk on water talk down to and ridicule newer members. That Sir is an example of a small man! I don't give a crap how much you know about Studebakers - that's sad that you can't be polite.

                      Another thing you may want to walk back is your statement - "But one of the problems with this is no one understands, needs, cares or can find these Old locksmith Generic, replacement keys, so all these aftermarket Key Blank Numbers do not matter anyway.
                      Thanks for attempting to help with all that BOOK of data though, that had to take a while to research."

                      How do you know that? Are you simply the wisest man on the mountain and know that no one will EVER need to rekey a lock? What do you do if you have a cylinder without a key? -- Wait...I know...no one cares right? Maybe if you opened your mind to the possibility that you may not have all the answers...you might learn something new. I know I do constantly!

                      What is your source for your information? -- List your source or - STFU.
                      Last edited by SergioG; 03-03-2017, 10:58 PM.
                      Best Regards,
                      Sergio
                      1948 Champion Regal Deluxe

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        56 years of owning and maintaining over 100 Studebakers, knowing and reading the Parts Catalogs inside out, selling Stude. Parts at several Dealers etc. speaks volumes about the Facts I know without needing verification. That CAN be done, but I am DONE with reading your BOOKS of useless data.

                        A quick look at Pg. 154 & 155 of the S.I. Catalog will disprove 75% of your incorrect aftermarket Locksmith info.

                        Have a nice Day.

                        Incidentally, I am a Lifer Studebaker Guy, not a Locksmith, so I know or care nothing about the thingy's that drop into the Key cuts.

                        All of the Yale Door & Ignition Locks I have disassembled have had TWO sets of round cylinders I call Tumblers as in most Locks. Never messed with Trunk & Glove Box locks, I replace them with NOS, I have about 50-60 if you need one.
                        Last edited by StudeRich; 03-03-2017, 11:16 PM.
                        StudeRich
                        Second Generation Stude Driver,
                        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hi Sale54, thank you for being a gentleman and understanding that things aren't always as the manufacturer depicted -- especially nearly 57 years after production and who knows how many repairs. The information I posted was taken from a book intended for vintage car restoration provided by a locksmith company. I spoke to them personally and I cross referenced the information with other sources and it is accurate -- to the extent that anyone can verify information from an auto manufacturer that no longer exists and that most people today don't even know ever existed. -- If some of the information does not match a specific application, then I most certainly urge that those that use it, verify their specific case with other sources available to them. -- That's how we learn new things! We learn of new sources and we verify them against known ones.

                          My post to the gentleman with the Lark was intended to help him with his bent key problem. I know I had problems trying to find anyone that knew what the Depth or Spacing was on a "Studebaker" key. It was posted with the best intentions in order to help in some way.

                          I don't mind someone offering other contrary information...in fact I welcome it. Simply be polite, which is something that has been lost in today's society.
                          Last edited by SergioG; 03-03-2017, 11:37 PM.
                          Best Regards,
                          Sergio
                          1948 Champion Regal Deluxe

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The "S.I. Catalog"...are you kidding me???? -- You're quoting a reproductions parts catalog as your source...WOW!

                            BTW, Yes...I looked at page 154. Key #525810 1947 - 1959 models with YALE locks. Key #525931 1947 - 1960 models with Hurd locks. WAIT WHAT....!?!?!?! -- There can be two applications... Yale AND Hurd lock sets -- oh, no, say it isn't so! - You know better than that...tell S.I. that is not CORRECT!!!

                            Rich my man...you clearly spent A LOT of time in the dealership, parts department, sales department, and doing magical things with Studebakers over the past 56 years...now its time to learn to be polite!
                            Best Regards,
                            Sergio
                            1948 Champion Regal Deluxe

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The S.I. catalog was merely noted as a quick and easier way to check what a Dozen different year Studebaker Parts Catalogs will say.

                              The simple answer to the duplication issue in the catalog is the same as in the info you quoted, your source simply did not know the difference and the info was left out of the Catalog for the owner to determine if he owns a Champion 6 (with Yale) or a Commander V8 (with Hurd), and also as Sal said, whether or not, the locks were Factory installed "per the Book" or possibly modified over the years by owners.

                              This so easy, you look for a 5/16 inch lock cylinder housing protrusion on the outside of the Doors (Hurd) or a 3/16 inch protrusion (Yale) from the Door skin.

                              Sorry if some of my posts sound harsh, it's just that I only know how to state the hard FACTS and typing that is never touchy feeley, people friendly, sorry about that... REALLY, in my real jobs they have been very Technical, Detailed and Precise, just the FACTS are used in Tech. writing, NO how are you doing stuff.
                              StudeRich
                              Second Generation Stude Driver,
                              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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