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R3..'For The Record'!

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  • R3..'For The Record'!

    Although the intractable oldtimers in the Studebaker Club will always say 'NO WAY'...Studebaker indeed did sell at least 16 R3-R4 powered cars to the public....13 of these being Studebaker Avantis.

    The number of R3 & R4 powered cars which Studebaker sold may actually be as high as 18, but that statement must be clarified by stating that 2 of the 18 may have been sold with R1 or R2 engines installed.

    Of course, there were/are several examples of Studebakers around the world with authentic R3/4 engines under their hoods which were installed 'after the fact'. (PBW for example)

    But, once again, if Studebaker sold a vehicle with an R3/4 engine under its hood,...that vehicle certainly should be considered an AUTHENTIC FACTORY STUDEBAKER R3/4.

    How about giving the owners of these very special Studebakers a little consideration here? ...SN-60

  • #2
    I would certainly give both the owners and vehicles that you refer to all due consideration and appreciate their vehicles.
    To me, the true R3 Avantis are the cars that were production R3 Avantis and their production orders reflect that (production being the key word).
    I am not saying that Studebaker did not sell other cars that received R3s after initial production of those cars.
    You are welcome to your opinion and you should also realize that others should be welcome to their opinions.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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    • #3
      Okay I'll bite . 9 factory built cars, plus Sherwood Egbert's car and the Hot Rod magazine car makes a total of 11. Please tell us what you consider the other 2 are.
      Bob Caser
      mrbobinc

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      • #4
        There's only one possible answer here...

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        Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gunslinger View Post
          There's only one possible answer here...
          Agree. A thoughtful, well-researched article in TW would be welcome. Constant bickering has become a waste of time.
          Skip Lackie

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          • #6
            Skip But what else do most of us have to do. Now you want to spoil all our fun.

            Comment


            • #7
              Not to kick a dead horse...but why would writing an article in Turning Wheels make a statement/comment more "true" than a statement here..?

              This to me, is like the "fact" that Stude cast iron is/was better than the other cast iron that everyone else used at the time...or since...pure fiction. Unless the Stude museum has written papers from back in the day, it's all just speculation.

              Mike

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              • #8
                The key to this "conjecture" is the Documentation.
                I see that Ed likes the term "Studebaker Sold", Obviously we know the Factory did not sell these Mystery over Eleven Cars, so that means we have to include Dealers in the "Studebaker Sold" definition.

                That gets very iffy because we know most if not all above the 11, were Dealer or Paxton Products Div. or even a few Owner installed and then there is NO WAY they were factory Installed and sold as R3's, just replacement R3's for a R1 or R2 in the case of an Avanti at least.

                So lets see the Dealer or Paxton Invoices.

                So all I can say is, after we verify the Heads being real R3 Heads and the R3/R4 Engine Serial Number, we can say: it is a Studebaker with the R3 or R4 option. Myself, I would not care how it got there.
                Last edited by StudeRich; 04-17-2016, 11:06 AM.
                StudeRich
                Second Generation Stude Driver,
                Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bob Caser View Post
                  Okay I'll bite . 9 factory built cars, plus Sherwood Egbert's car and the Hot Rod magazine car makes a total of 11. Please tell us what you consider the other 2 are.
                  Bob Caser
                  Hi Bob,....The other two factory R3 Avantis are the #8 and the #9 Bonneville Specials. This gives a total of 13 authentic R3 Studebaker factory Avantis.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gunslinger View Post
                    There's only one possible answer here...

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]53157[/ATTACH]
                    Funny, but someone as knowledgeable as you in these matters should be able to see some life left in that horse......Let's finally try to get this right....Accepting that Studebaker made only 9 R3 Avantis is ludicrous!

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                    • #11
                      i'm staying out of this one. pretty soon we'll be talkin' about R3 tributes and clones!

                      anyway, what good is it to "argue" to someone that thinks he is always correct?

                      oops...
                      Kerry. SDC Member #A012596W. ENCSDC member.

                      '51 Champion Business Coupe - (Tom's Car). Purchased 11/2012.

                      '40 Champion. sold 10/11. '63 Avanti R-1384. sold 12/10.

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                      • #12
                        Never was close enough to know if Studebaker did, but with GM some of the "Hot" stuff came in the trunk.. To be installed at the dealerships, usually at the owners discretion..

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                        • #13
                          Vince Granatelli (Andy's son) installed several R3's after Studebaker production ended.

                          Denny L

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Green53 View Post
                            Vince Granatelli (Andy's son) installed several R3's after Studebaker production ended.

                            Denny L
                            I visited Vince in the summer of 1965 to research having a R3 installed in my Avanti. The cost was too much based on what the Avanti was worth at the time. After the factory closing the blue book was not kind to any Studebaker. I used my allocated R3 money as a down payment on a 1965 Cobra. Vince was operating out of a single bay garage in San Monica and not the Paxton facilities hardly a Studebaker authorized facility. The day I was there he had several cars including a R4 Avanti that he had just finished.

                            To add to this R3 R4 story, my parents purchased an Avanti for me in October of 1963. Prior to purchase in the summer of 1963 I visited the local Studebaker dealers asking about ordering a R3 or R4, they were receptive, but by the fall they had no interest in ordering a car with such an engine. I lived across the river from New York city not exactly a small retail market.

                            Chevrolet sold 20 1967 Corvettes with a L88 engine many dealers Yenko, Dana , Nickey and others installed these motors as well. Chevrolet sold and documented 20 sold through their dealers. Chevrolet would have been willing to sell many more but nobody wanted them. This happened with other manufactures as well, Shelby . Mopar , etc.

                            Studebaker built 9 documented Avanti's that were ordered and sold while they were in production , prior to the factory closing.

                            Bob Caser
                            mrbobinc

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were 9 R3 Avanti's with real build sheets. There was 1 R3 Commander with a real build sheet. And there was 1 R4 Daytona with a real build sheet. Is this correct? If it's correct, that makes 11 cars. IF a dealer installed an R3 in another car, isn't that like Yenko modifying Chevelles and Camaros with 396's? A factory built car is a car built at the factory.

                              This is to take nothing away from the PBW. George bought the Challenger in 1964 and he has paperwork. He bought the R3 engine in 1964 and he has paperwork. But it doesn't make it a factory built R3. If Granitelli installed a few R3's at his shop, it's no different than Roush installing 347's in what were originally 302 Mustangs. Or Lingenfelter modifying Corvettes. Paperwork doesn't lie.
                              Tom - Bradenton, FL

                              1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2514.10)
                              1964 Studebaker Commander - 170 1V, 3-Speed w/OD

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