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  • Light Truck Brakes time-line question

    The M-series trucks and at least early R-series, l would believe, had the "older" type brakes with the eccentric cam adjusters inherited from pre-war systems.

    My question is : when, for TRUCKS (l know that the answer for CARS is 1954), did Studebaker move into more modern times with brake systems that are improved, easier to adjust and more familiar to mechanics today?

    l'm having a couple of problems with my M5's brakes that are taking too long to solve (two years) and l suspect that part of it is mal-adjustment by mechanics who don't know what they're doing.

    My son wants me to get a faster Studebaker so that l can attend shows with him (he has a Power Hawk and lives well over a hour away). Trucks definitely are fun - maybe more than cars - and if l go looking for a replacement for the M5, l want to know that such a critical thing as the brakes won't be more than my local mechanics can handle.

    AND, if you know of a good truck, needing a minimum of work that can be driven home to Ontario in a day or so, with a fair (or even cheaper) price , please let me know!

    Thanks!!
    Roger Hill


    60 Lark Vlll, hardtop, black/red, Power Kit, 3 spd. - "Juliette"
    61 Champ Deluxe, 6, black/red, o/d, long box. - "Jeri"
    Junior Wagon - "Junior"

    "In the end, dear undertaker,
    Ride me in a Studebaker"

  • #2
    I believe that the truck brakes changed for the last two years 1963 & 64. My brother has used the late T cab brakes on both of the C cab trucks he has done. I don't know if they retrofit to an M as easily.
    Last edited by 52-fan; 08-06-2015, 02:40 PM.
    sigpic

    "In the heart of Arkansas."
    Searcy, Arkansas
    1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
    1952 2R pickup

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    • #3
      As Howard said, 63,64 Champs were improved. I do think an M-Series "of the same weight capacity" will take these parts with no problems.
      Originally posted by 52-fan View Post
      I believe that the truck brakes changed for the last two years 1963 & 64. My brother has used the late T cab brakes on both of the C cab trucks he has done. I don't know if that retrofit to an M as easily.
      Joseph R. Zeiger

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmm! Never stopped to think that the more "modern" Stude truck systems could fit the M! So is it a bolt-on conversion like '51 to '53 cars to the better '54 and newer system?

        I did know that the '63/'64 system was better than those offered previously, but do you mean that Stude used the old fashioned cam adjuster system up to and including '62?
        Roger Hill


        60 Lark Vlll, hardtop, black/red, Power Kit, 3 spd. - "Juliette"
        61 Champ Deluxe, 6, black/red, o/d, long box. - "Jeri"
        Junior Wagon - "Junior"

        "In the end, dear undertaker,
        Ride me in a Studebaker"

        Comment


        • #5
          Also at least SOME Later 1962 Trucks have starwheel adjusted Bendix style Brakes, the Truck line was not ALWAYS so careful about introducing changes at a defined Serial Number apparently.

          This could be dependant on the Model as well, as my Truck is not a run of the mill 1/2 or 3/4 Ton Champ, it's a 7E13-131 Transtar Deluxe 1 Ton Dually.

          It was Built 6/25/62 not really all that Late, but late enough to have a Full Flow Engine with the Block-off plate and a Canister, Drop in Element type Fram Filter on top.

          The reason for that... your guess is as good as mine!
          Mine is; that they did not have head Pipes to clear the Filter, because I tried to install it even with a Stubby Filter, it is impossible in a "C" Cab with Factory Crossover single exhaust head Pipes.

          These Brakes look exactly like a '54-'66 V8 Car on Steroids, not 11 and 10 Inch, I think the Drums are all 13 Inch and Hydrovac equipped.
          Last edited by StudeRich; 08-06-2015, 03:30 PM.
          StudeRich
          Second Generation Stude Driver,
          Proud '54 Starliner Owner



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          • #6
            Not simple to answer, because (as Rich noted) one must distinguish between half-ton and larger trucks. The half-ton trucks (except for 4WD) didn't go to star wheel adjusters until the 7E series. But they did dump the eccentric adjusters for self-energizing brakes in the middle of the 1955 E series (US only, not Canadian). 3/4-ton and 1-ton got star wheels in the middle of the 1956 2E series. Many bigger trucks had two wheel cylinders per wheel, and used yet another system. If I've over-simplified, someone please advise.
            Skip Lackie

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            • #7
              I would get with Jim Turner & see if his disc brake setup will work on an M series. I have it on my 61 Champ & they work like a charm. I understand he is working on a 3/4 ton version too but maybe in the distant future.
              59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
              60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
              61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
              62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
              62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
              62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
              63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
              63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
              64 Zip Van
              66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
              66 Cruiser V-8 auto

              Comment


              • #8
                Jim Turner does have disk brake kits for the M5 trucks that bolt on.

                The 1963-64 brakes from 1/2 ton trucks are also direct bolt-on replacements if you can find the backing plates. These use the same 11" drums -sort of. The 1963-63 drums will fit all of the older trucks and cars back to about 1940. I think, but am not positive, that the older drums can be turned to a little more depth, but at the same diameter, to go on the later brakes. I also think you can take the Lark-style 11" backing plates and re-drill them for the M5 front spindle and back axle bolt pattern and use those. The 11" shoes and small parts for the 7E-8E trucks are the same as the Lark-type 11" ones, all easily available.

                I did the 8E drum brake conversion on my 1948 M5 and have been very happy. Lots of stopping power, easy to adjust. You do need to get the later parking brake cable and change the brake hoses because the fittings to the wheel cylinders are different. But, at least you can buy the wheel cylinders! I have silicone brake fluid in my system because I replaced all the wheel cylinders, hoses, steel lines, etc. The stop light pressure switch lasts about 3-5 years before the silicone seeps through and the switch doesn't work - try Harley Davidson pressure switches.
                Gary Ash
                Dartmouth, Mass.

                '32 Indy car replica (in progress)
                ’41 Commander Land Cruiser
                '48 M5
                '65 Wagonaire Commander
                '63 Wagonaire Standard
                web site at http://www.studegarage.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Skip Lackie View Post
                  Not simple to answer, because (as Rich noted) one must distinguish between half-ton and larger trucks. The half-ton trucks (except for 4WD) didn't go to star wheel adjusters until the 7E series. But they did dump the eccentric adjusters for self-energizing brakes in the middle of the 1955 E series (US only, not Canadian). 3/4-ton and 1-ton got star wheels in the middle of the 1956 2E series. Many bigger trucks had two wheel cylinders per wheel, and used yet another system. If I've over-simplified, someone please advise.
                  Originally posted by Warren Webb View Post
                  I would get with Jim Turner & see if his disc brake setup will work on an M series. I have it on my 61 Champ & they work like a charm. I understand he is working on a 3/4 ton version too but maybe in the distant future.
                  Great info and suggestions with the above comments. My 1955 E5 half ton has the eccentric cams. I learned, years ago, that you can't just move the adjustments until you feel resistance. The best way is to turn the adjusters until the brake "locks" the wheel. Then back off just enough to allow movement. This procedure works excellent for individual shoes on the cam style brakes and also for the star type adjusters.

                  I'm considering installing a Studebaker V8 in my truck. If I get that done, I'll evaluate the stock brake system performance. If it does not suit me...I'll be contacting Jim Turner.
                  John Clary
                  Greer, SC

                  SDC member since 1975

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gary, Yes the Lark backing plates + hardware work. I had these centered and drilled on all 4 corners of a Champ 1/2 ton back in the early 90s. I sold these a couple years ago to a fella,He was converting His m-series.and as You said,We changed the brake cable at that time - and I even mounted a foot operated e-brake from a 65 Cruiser in the cab.
                    Originally posted by garyash View Post
                    Jim Turner does have disk brake kits for the M5 trucks that bolt on.

                    The 1963-64 brakes from 1/2 ton trucks are also direct bolt-on replacements if you can find the backing plates. These use the same 11" drums -sort of. The 1963-63 drums will fit all of the older trucks and cars back to about 1940. I think, but am not positive, that the older drums can be turned to a little more depth, but at the same diameter, to go on the later brakes. I also think you can take the Lark-style 11" backing plates and re-drill them for the M5 front spindle and back axle bolt pattern and use those. The 11" shoes and small parts for the 7E-8E trucks are the same as the Lark-type 11" ones, all easily available.

                    I did the 8E drum brake conversion on my 1948 M5 and have been very happy. Lots of stopping power, easy to adjust. You do need to get the later parking brake cable and change the brake hoses because the fittings to the wheel cylinders are different. But, at least you can buy the wheel cylinders! I have silicone brake fluid in my system because I replaced all the wheel cylinders, hoses, steel lines, etc. The stop light pressure switch lasts about 3-5 years before the silicone seeps through and the switch doesn't work - try Harley Davidson pressure switches.
                    Joseph R. Zeiger

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks, guys! This stuff is what l need to know! The forum works it's magic again!
                      Roger Hill


                      60 Lark Vlll, hardtop, black/red, Power Kit, 3 spd. - "Juliette"
                      61 Champ Deluxe, 6, black/red, o/d, long box. - "Jeri"
                      Junior Wagon - "Junior"

                      "In the end, dear undertaker,
                      Ride me in a Studebaker"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If I understand correctly, and perhaps this works only for the M series. I can modify Lark V8 front backing plates to convert from the older style brakes to brakes similar what was used on 8E 1/2 tons and still use the drum that are already there (or use mid 1970s chevy)

                        I have a lot of bits and pieces to use up to get an early Champ on the road.

                        Jeff T.
                        \"I\'m getting nowhere as fast as I can\"
                        The Replacements.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jeff, I had a Champ Truck project "was a mix of various year Champ parts - was gonna be registered as a 62". and We used late Model Lark type front + rear backing plates with all brake pieces and centered them spot on then re-drilled some of the holes.
                          Originally posted by Jeff T. View Post
                          If I understand correctly, and perhaps this works only for the M series. I can modify Lark V8 front backing plates to convert from the older style brakes to brakes similar what was used on 8E 1/2 tons and still use the drum that are already there (or use mid 1970s chevy)

                          I have a lot of bits and pieces to use up to get an early Champ on the road.

                          Jeff T.
                          Joseph R. Zeiger

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the info. I've got the front brakes off a 63 V8 that I can put to good use on a Champ that I've been tinkering on for years. I've got some rears stored somewhere too.
                            \"I\'m getting nowhere as fast as I can\"
                            The Replacements.

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