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  • Cutting Headers

    I just got off the phone with a trusted distributor and he informed me that whatever I do, DO NOT, cut the shelf off the inside of the cast iron headers.He said that this would completely ruin the header and make it work wrong. I have read all over ths website people talking about doing this. Has anyone actually done it and do you have a picture of it?

  • #2
    You're going to have to clarify "shelf" for me. I don't have a clue what that is.


    Dick Steinkamp
    Bellingham, WA

    Comment


    • #3
      You're going to have to clarify "shelf" for me. I don't have a clue what that is.


      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

      Comment


      • #4
        I assume that this is the 1/8'' thck piece of metal that goes across the inside of the header from the collector area. Looks like the only way to it is with a dremel.

        Comment


        • #5
          I assume that this is the 1/8'' thck piece of metal that goes across the inside of the header from the collector area. Looks like the only way to it is with a dremel.

          Comment


          • #6
            What you want to remove is all the excess metal that leaked between the two halfs of the mold and caused a "ridge" along the outer sides of the collector (bottom) portion on the mold line.

            The center "divider" may collapse if you grind it too much, they have thin spots in them. I had to pay Jon & Mike Myer to modify mine, they cannot be used as cast from LS.

            StudeRich
            Studebakers Northwest
            Ferndale, WA
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              What you want to remove is all the excess metal that leaked between the two halfs of the mold and caused a "ridge" along the outer sides of the collector (bottom) portion on the mold line.

              The center "divider" may collapse if you grind it too much, they have thin spots in them. I had to pay Jon & Mike Myer to modify mine, they cannot be used as cast from LS.

              StudeRich
              Studebakers Northwest
              Ferndale, WA
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

              Comment


              • #8
                bkz -
                All you need to do is look inside of that manifold and ask yourself..."is that as smooth and free flowing as it can be?"

                Don't know who your distr. is....personally...if he is giving you good monetary deals...stick with him. But for performance information, find another source.

                Ok...thought of an experiment for you to do.
                Hit up your local hardware store for a piece of 2" pvc round tube. Also get some flat sheet stock (any material) and reducers to be able to fit the end of your garden hose tightly into the 2" pvc.

                Assemble the reducer into one end of about a 12" piece of the pvc. Glue it together nice and leak free.

                Now...insert your hose into the small end and turn on the hose...full. Verify it's leak free.
                Notice the amount of water comming out the other end. Have someone take digital pictures for record.

                Now...with a saw of some kind, cut a slit about a third of the way into the tube about 4" from end opposite the hose end. Glue so it is leak free.

                Reinsert your hose and turn it on full. Notice how much "more(?)" water is comming out.?

                I'd be willing to bet...in the entire world of "real world" milage tricks or "real world" horse power making parts...you will not find that type of plug in any system today.

                Now...I will note...on most 150+hp "street" motor cycles (sport bike types)...there is a "valve" within the exhaust system that is designed very closely with the cam designers that "does" partially plug the system at "low" rpm's to "crutch" the system (engine) into thinking the cams aren't as big as they really are.
                This valve opens very quickly at """low""" rpm to let the full system flow. Without going outside at almost 10pm and checking the exact rpm the valve fully opens...I'd guess from past adjustements...it's fully open by about 3000rpm.
                Remember...this is a 1000cc engine with a 11,500 rpm redline...and yes...from the factory, most make in excess of 150 hp.
                Note...3000rpm in a bike engine (power wise) is like about 1500rpm in a normal V8.

                A stock or mildly modified Stude is out of power at about 5000/5500 rpm.
                Do you really want to take ANY possible free flowing intake OR exhaust gasses and slow them down any more than they are now?

                I don't.

                Mike

                P.s. - yes, I've done it to two sets. one for a customer that I ported his heads, and one set for myself for my 299 Stude engine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  bkz -
                  All you need to do is look inside of that manifold and ask yourself..."is that as smooth and free flowing as it can be?"

                  Don't know who your distr. is....personally...if he is giving you good monetary deals...stick with him. But for performance information, find another source.

                  Ok...thought of an experiment for you to do.
                  Hit up your local hardware store for a piece of 2" pvc round tube. Also get some flat sheet stock (any material) and reducers to be able to fit the end of your garden hose tightly into the 2" pvc.

                  Assemble the reducer into one end of about a 12" piece of the pvc. Glue it together nice and leak free.

                  Now...insert your hose into the small end and turn on the hose...full. Verify it's leak free.
                  Notice the amount of water comming out the other end. Have someone take digital pictures for record.

                  Now...with a saw of some kind, cut a slit about a third of the way into the tube about 4" from end opposite the hose end. Glue so it is leak free.

                  Reinsert your hose and turn it on full. Notice how much "more(?)" water is comming out.?

                  I'd be willing to bet...in the entire world of "real world" milage tricks or "real world" horse power making parts...you will not find that type of plug in any system today.

                  Now...I will note...on most 150+hp "street" motor cycles (sport bike types)...there is a "valve" within the exhaust system that is designed very closely with the cam designers that "does" partially plug the system at "low" rpm's to "crutch" the system (engine) into thinking the cams aren't as big as they really are.
                  This valve opens very quickly at """low""" rpm to let the full system flow. Without going outside at almost 10pm and checking the exact rpm the valve fully opens...I'd guess from past adjustements...it's fully open by about 3000rpm.
                  Remember...this is a 1000cc engine with a 11,500 rpm redline...and yes...from the factory, most make in excess of 150 hp.
                  Note...3000rpm in a bike engine (power wise) is like about 1500rpm in a normal V8.

                  A stock or mildly modified Stude is out of power at about 5000/5500 rpm.
                  Do you really want to take ANY possible free flowing intake OR exhaust gasses and slow them down any more than they are now?

                  I don't.

                  Mike

                  P.s. - yes, I've done it to two sets. one for a customer that I ported his heads, and one set for myself for my 299 Stude engine.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am sorry Mike, but I don't think any of us are psychic enough to read your mind to know what ANY of this means! Does it prove that R3 Headers have a design flaw, the heads do, or somehow relate in some other way to a Studebaker V-8.

                    I don't think cutting a slit in a pipe and then gluing it back up, will make a single bit of difference in the flow through it!

                    StudeRich
                    Studebakers Northwest
                    Ferndale, WA
                    StudeRich
                    Second Generation Stude Driver,
                    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am sorry Mike, but I don't think any of us are psychic enough to read your mind to know what ANY of this means! Does it prove that R3 Headers have a design flaw, the heads do, or somehow relate in some other way to a Studebaker V-8.

                      I don't think cutting a slit in a pipe and then gluing it back up, will make a single bit of difference in the flow through it!

                      StudeRich
                      Studebakers Northwest
                      Ferndale, WA
                      StudeRich
                      Second Generation Stude Driver,
                      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        StudeRich - I think that Mike is trying to simulate the casting "flash" that is protruding into the flow path.Lark55

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          StudeRich - I think that Mike is trying to simulate the casting "flash" that is protruding into the flow path.Lark55

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Rich -

                            Simply put......putting a plug in a pipe...will slow the flow!

                            Bout as simple as it can be stated!

                            The heads have a design flaw???
                            First I've heard of that! I believe the designers did what they set out to do with the general knowlege at that time. No bad thoughts on them for that... You ever seen a 60's Chrysler head? While the ports were larger...the flow was still cr8p for what they were supposed to do.

                            I have NO idea if that "shelf" is in the OEM manifold or not. If it is...yea..shame on them. Again though..in their defense...50+ years ago...a lot less was known about how wet (intake) and dry (ehxhaust) flow worked.

                            Note on my above experiment...reread it. It says...shove a flat piece of material into the pvc (to plug it up!), (like the current HP manifold!) and glue it up! In not quite so many words!

                            Mike

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Rich -

                              Simply put......putting a plug in a pipe...will slow the flow!

                              Bout as simple as it can be stated!

                              The heads have a design flaw???
                              First I've heard of that! I believe the designers did what they set out to do with the general knowlege at that time. No bad thoughts on them for that... You ever seen a 60's Chrysler head? While the ports were larger...the flow was still cr8p for what they were supposed to do.

                              I have NO idea if that "shelf" is in the OEM manifold or not. If it is...yea..shame on them. Again though..in their defense...50+ years ago...a lot less was known about how wet (intake) and dry (ehxhaust) flow worked.

                              Note on my above experiment...reread it. It says...shove a flat piece of material into the pvc (to plug it up!), (like the current HP manifold!) and glue it up! In not quite so many words!

                              Mike

                              Comment

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