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  • PSMCDR R3's

    I am still slowly working towards my R3 Hawk and would like to race at the Pure Stocks. How does the PSMCDR feel about the R3's racing? The rules say they must have been offered with a factory warranty. Everything I've found says no warranty was offered for the R3 engines. Does anyone have documentation that there was a factory warranty offered? If so, I'd like a copy for my files just in case it is challenged.
    Jim
    Often in error, never in doubt
    http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

    ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Jim,

    The rules are about option availability, could a Hawk been ordered with a R3? Would an R3 been under warranty? Yes is the answer to both questions. You can race it.


    Allen
    1964 GT Hawk
    PSMCDR 2014
    Best time: 14.473 sec. 96.57 MPH quarter mile
    PSMCDR 2013
    Best time: 14.654 sec. 94.53 MPH quarter

    Victoria, Canada

    Comment


    • #3
      Jim, George Krem's R3 Plain Brown Wrapper has been running legally, unquestioned, at the event since 1998. Steve Doerschlag's 1964 R3 Challenger, The Silver Streak, has also run several years, and The Stude Tomato was configured as a legal R3 for one year as well, so R3s are accepted at the event.

      While Studebaker offered no warranty on the R3 engine, the entire car in which it was installed still carried the 24 month / 24,000-mile warranty, so the car had a warranty on it. That might have been needed if, for example, a window regulator broke or the gas gauge quit working or a rear wheel bearing went bad.

      The rules also say that no dealer-modified cars may run, but Yenko Camaros and Novas run regularly at the event.

      Seriously, don't worry about it. While no factory R3 Hawks were built, the engine was readily available in Hawks as well as "Larks." The fact that it was readily available determines whether it can run, not how many (if any at all!) were actually built. BP
      We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

      Ayn Rand:
      "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

      G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Just an innocent by-stander here but a couple of years ago there was a great turmoil about the definition of "stock" racing at PSMCD's. IIWM, I'd talk to the old guy Stude racers Ted, Bob, et.al and see what they think. They know Donny quite well and I'll bet could run point and smooth the waters.

        After what went down in the past, I wouldn't want to PO the folks that run the event.

        P.S., I hope you can 'cause I think I can make it this year. Love to watch the Studes run.

        Bob
        , ,

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sweetolbob View Post
          Just an innocent by-stander here but a couple of years ago there was a great turmoil about the definition of "stock" racing at PSMCD's. IIWM, I'd talk to the old guy Stude racers Ted, Bob, et.al and see what they think. They know Donny quite well and I'll bet could run point and smooth the waters.

          After what went down in the past, I wouldn't want to PO the folks that run the event.

          P.S., I hope you can 'cause I think I can make it this year. Love to watch the Studes run.

          Bob
          Yes, Bob; we are planning to bring both The Stude Tomato and The Plain Brown Wrapper this year.

          'Hope to see you there. BP
          We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

          Ayn Rand:
          "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

          G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just checking. I've already gotten shut down over adding safety equipment and have to build a one chassis to be legal there and another to move the body to for use at our NHRA track. I was really hoping someone had a document showing the R3 was warranteed.
            Last edited by jlmccuan; 08-19-2014, 11:05 PM.
            Jim
            Often in error, never in doubt
            http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

            ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jlmccuan View Post
              Just checking. I've already gotten shut down over adding safety equipment and have to build a one chassis to be legal there and another to move the body to for use at our NHRA track. I was really hoping someone had a document showing the R3 was warranteed.
              Jim
              I hate to say this but I do remember seeing something in writing one time that the engines had no warranty. Probably a magazine of some sort. However, one of the factory R3 Avantis did have its engine replaced under warranty.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, that's good news, Nels. Thanks.
                Jim
                Often in error, never in doubt
                http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

                ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  'Here ya go, Jim and Nels. 'Sorry to say these were scanned from photocopies, but the R3 information is clear and the closing paragraph documents their being sold with No Warranty:
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------




                  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  (Hmmm...to what could they be referring with the disclaimer of "highly specialized conditions of its use?")


                  Not to mention its, "not being regarded as ideally suited for city driving under heavy traffic conditions?" What's the problem there? Just be first in line at the traffic light and when it goes green, you leave all the other city dwellers and traffic behind you. BP
                  We've got to quit saying, "How stupid can you be?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge.

                  Ayn Rand:
                  "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."

                  G. K. Chesterton: This triangle of truisms, of father, mother, and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks, Bob. I do remember that Sales Letter, reprinted in TW, somewhere around 1979 or so. What caught my eye then was the last sentence in second last paragraph stating it was not ideal in heavy traffic use.

                    Craig

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BobPalma View Post
                      Not to mention its, "not being regarded as ideally suited for city driving under heavy traffic conditions?" What's the problem there? Just be first in line at the traffic light and when it goes green, you leave all the other city dwellers and traffic behind you. :!
                      You did say being 'first in line' wasn't necessary in post #36 here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...light=winnipeg

                      Craig

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, now I remember that letter also. However, Stude did warrant one of the nine factory cars. When I was tracking them, thirty plus years ago, I talked, in person, to the owner of the dealership that sold one of the cars. He said the engine had failed shortly after it was purchased and the factory service rep watched to make sure the mechanic at the dealership drove a large punch through the side of the original block. All this after the new engine was delivered and installed in the Avanti.
                        I was surprised myself but they did, in fact, warrant an R3 engine. Maybe special circumstances?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I hope you can make it, Jim. I'm all giddy about my new 373 gears. I've been trying some hole shots and it winds out pretty good. A cab driver pulled up beside me and said "That must be a big new engine. I watched you take off with it and I didn't see any smoke". LOL
                          Dave Warren (Perry Mason by day, Perry Como by night)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            PSMCDR rules state that the event is "For 1955 to 1974 musclecars built in United States and Canadian assembly plants with a minimum warranty of 12 months and 12,000 miles." The rules do not specifically refer to the engine, just the car. As Bob P. said, Studebaker did have a warranty on the rest of the car. Here's an example: I purchased the Plain Brown Wrapper on July 31, 1964. Bob and I installed the new R3 during the following Christmas vacation. Two months later (less than one year into my ownership), the case cracked on the original battery. Freemen-Spicer of South Bend replaced the battery under warranty at no charge. I still have that original paperwork.

                            PSMCDR rules also state "Dealership built/modified cars are not eligible to participate." That describes Yenkos (as Bob mentioned), and yet they are allowed to participate. We have not asked the organizers for their reasoning about this under the theory that some questions are better left unasked. Let sleeping dogs lie, and all that. <G> But the organizers have made it very clear that any R3-powered Studebakers are not only allowed to enter, but that they are most welcome.

                            George
                            george krem

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nels View Post
                              I was surprised myself but they did, in fact, warrant an R3 engine. Maybe special circumstances?
                              Maybe the owner was 'special', in that he was a newspaper editor, or some other sort of prominent person who could influence the public one way or the other.

                              Craig

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