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  • frt brake and susp questions c/k

    I am currently building a 55 c body for drag racing purpose the stock control arms and king pins don't really bother me but the brake situation and not being able to get much positive caster does. I looked into the slick stude stuff but not fond of the rack mounting. I recently talked with someone who slotted there upper control arm mounting holes to gain caster if that is feasible I only have the brakes to contend with is the turner brake system or something else suitable this car is likely to see 150 mph plus in a 1/4 mile and would like to be able to stop it. Thank you for any info. Dan

  • #2
    If it's a drag car, just put a angle at top inside of where the existing bolt holes are and then turn the bolt holes on upper inner 90 degrees and use shims as per early chevy. As for the brakes, at 150 I would start thinking chute. LOL

    Comment


    • #3
      I think you do need more POSITIVE Caster to keep it straight at high speed. The stock settings are crazy Low Caster -2 1/2 Degrees for ease of turning.

      It sounds to me like the Post #2 suggestion would give you more + Camber which you should not need.

      I agree, at 150 MPH a chute is certainly needed!

      But you could buy the Front and Rear Power Disc Brake conversion from Turner Brake to help a lot.

      UPDATE: Changes in Maroon.
      Last edited by StudeRich; 02-10-2014, 10:26 PM.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #4
        sbca96 here on the forum offers a Cobra 13" rotor and caliper system. You will need larger wheels to utilize them.
        Bez Auto Alchemy
        573-318-8948
        http://bezautoalchemy.com


        "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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        • #5
          It will have a chute rules require it but would still want very good brakes. The angle idea looks like what the slick stude conversion does for his tubular arms. Would be very interested in learning more about the 13 in brake set up. Thanks all Dan

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with Dan's original post that extra positive caster is a good thing for high speed straight line applications like the drag strip or LSR. For a 150 mph car you will no doubt be adding a full cage both for rules and for chassis strength. I think you would be ahead of the game if you put a more modern front suspension under it at the same time you do the cage. Fatman offers a front stub that is designed for Studebaker and the front sheet metal attachment points are already there. They also have tubular A-Arms, Rack & Pinion, big brakes etc. It may cost a little more in the beginning, but I believe you would end up with a more tuneable front suspension. Might trim some weight off too. Just offering an opinion, as the saying goes, your car, your money.
            Pat Dilling
            Olivehurst, CA
            Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


            LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

            Comment


            • #7
              OOPS, I am Sorry I got my Left and Right or more correctly; Positive and Negative Caster Bassackwards!
              You are right Pat, it should be just reverse. WHAT was I thinking!
              Last edited by StudeRich; 02-10-2014, 10:26 PM.
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

              Comment


              • #8
                In any case...yes, tilt the top of the spindle "back" (toward the drivers seat!) 5 to 7 degrees...!
                Normally I suggest "against" new/different suspension parts. But in this case (going 150mph), I would suggest something else mostly because of the caster situation.
                And yea...follow the NHRA rulebook very closly as far as a roll cage and everything else..!

                As for the brakes... I'd assume you can fabricate some if you are planning on this type of car..!?
                It's not a difficult job to fab. up a pair of brackets for the front. See below (54 Conestoga) -
                http://public.fotki.com/-Mike-/my_studebakers/
                The larger bracket was made up by Dave LeVesque, the smaller bracket is mine. It uses a Wilwood four piston caliper. This car stops very easily with four wheel discs, and "no" power booster.
                The larger bracket uses an early GM caliper. Wilwood also makes aluminum copies of these calipers to drop a little weight off the front of the car.

                These guys have a nice copy of that bracket -
                http://hotrodsandbrakes.com/
                Just beware, they gave me the wrong hoses in the kit I bought a short while back, but the bracket is very nice, their bearing spacer works well and the rest is just Ford and GM parts.

                Note: To make the stock front suspension gain this much caster, it will take more thAn JUST "slotting" something to do it correctly.
                Because of the stock design, slotting the upper arm mount and moving the upper arm, does nothing but put everything in a bind..! The Stude design is a combination of a straight axle and parallel control arms. The spindle to a-arm interface does NOT work like a ball joint where you "can" move the arms to different angles without doing any harm or binding...NOT the Stude design.
                I'd say the person that told you that (the slotting deal) is not telling you the whole truth, any of the truth or something in between..!

                Hell...even to the point of putting a straight/dropped axle under the car. Been done a million times back in the day and you can buy fairly inexpensive kits to do this at home. Will make adjustments easy and will be much easier on your wallet thAn trying to get a Stude front end back to 5/7 degrees caster...!
                I've got a friend who's getting ready to put a dropped axle under his 41 Stude coupe.

                My nickles worth..

                Mike

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the responses and info. After thinking about it I agree slotting will not work with ball joints it may but king pin isn't going to flex and the only thing left is to bind. Guess im back to the drawing board looks like the only option I have may be slick stude, one of the races I want to enter requires stock type suspension but will allow for tubular arms if mounted in stock location. Guess this is what I get for wanting to be different and getting away from my brand x cars but I will get it in the end and have something rarely seen. Part of issue is not only do I want to run sub 9 sec but I want to drive it to track 85 miles one way and if that works out then on to dragweek.The car is getting a full cage and will be legal for any class and speed I wish to run. Thank you again for all responses and info will try to get some car porn together to share but I need to resize pictures and im good with wrenchs and welders and such but computers.... not so much. Dan

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hang on...this is going to most possibly a tuffer task thAn you think.
                    Ask me how I know...!

                    Best of luck and keep us up to date on your progress.

                    Mike

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Didn't they relocate the upper control arms on some of the Bonneville Avanti's? Same suspension and some of those went 170+.
                      Pat Dilling
                      Olivehurst, CA
                      Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


                      LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Back in the dim mists of time, going on fifty years ago, we did something similar which worked fine.

                        IIRC, the leaf spring tapered shims used to correct pinion angles were the solution. Placed under the top front and rear lower A-arm, carefully trying as we moved them back, this increased caster enough. When we got caster where we wanted it and no bind in full suspension travel, we marked and drilled holes for the mounting bolts to pass through.

                        No warranty expressed or implied, but it drove well to and from the track and survived many high speed 1/4-passes.

                        jack vines
                        PackardV8

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                        • #13
                          I used to drag race Pinkie. She has delrin instead of rubber in the front end and when I put a Nine inch Ford rear under her I wound up with her tracking fine above 140. The only mod I did to her steering was to weld L iron onto the tie rods. For a while Pinkie was supercharged but not worth the hassle as I was running 11.25: 1

                          Driving to the strip was an adventure but back then I could still get Ethyl. Yes I am running a McKinnon in her and now only 10.25 : 1 and natural aspiration but I sure would NOT planning on driving to the track. Car trailers are inexpensive compared to towing. Even running that 30 some spline 9 inch I have sheared pinion and axle shafts and it just would not be worth the hassle of only having one vehicle. I picked up a car trailer a few years ago for a grand and I am glad that I did as it sure comes in handy.
                          If you car is ugly then it better be fast.....

                          65 2dr sedan
                          64 2dr sedan (Pinkie)
                          61 V8 Tcab
                          63 Tcab 20R powered
                          55 Commander Wagon
                          54 Champion Wagon
                          46 Gibson Model A
                          50 JD MC
                          45 Agricat
                          67 Triumph T100
                          66 Bultaco Matadore

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                          • #14
                            I have a trailer and have towed to the track nearly 25 years but cant think of anything cooler then driving a low 9 sec car to strip except for maybe having wife drive it because she wont drive motor home lol. This will be a ls turbo car and should have good street manners and run hard . I have owned cars that needed to be trailered and my last car was a 10.20 car @ 130 but only got gals per mile mileage not mpg this car should muster 15 mpg be fairly docile until boost is turned up but then again I have a loose interpretation of what a street car is someday maybe I will slow down but not ready yet.

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                            • #15
                              I agree that if one uses tapered shims or an odd combination of shims/washers in the upper arm mount to provide some additional caster with the slots in the frame...will work...but....the lower control arm should also be set on the same angle as the top arm...! Or else binding "will" occure somewhere in the system....probably in the lower cross bar.

                              Mike

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