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MPG Up 22% With HFI Over Edelbrock

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  • MPG Up 22% With HFI Over Edelbrock

    For the past few months, I've kept meticulous records of MPG on various Stude setups, and posted results here. This time is about an Edelbrock and HFI; both on the wife's 63GT; 3.07 gears, and FOM tranny.

    Several weeks ago, trying to make the car more drive able for the wife, I installed an electric choked, 600 CFM, Edelbrock 1406, which is familiar to most Stude folks, though most here prefer the 500 CFM, 1403. While some may argue, my experience has been they are nearly identical in terms of performance and MPG.

    During the 409 miles it was on the car, the Edelbrock swilled down 29 gallons of gas, for an average of 14.1 MPG.

    I replaced the Edelbrock with HFI 616 miles ago, and it has drank 35.9 gallons of gas, for an average of 17.16 MPG, which is about 22% increase.

    While the baby Holley on the same car got 16.64 MPG, it is almost unheard of in the Stude world, so not representative of OEM Stude. (It also had a manual choke, which is why I swapped it out.) The Edelbrock is more typical, and gets about the same MPG as Studes in the 60s, running AFBs.

    Driving conditions and road speeds were similar in all the above.
    Last edited by JoeHall; 03-30-2014, 01:33 PM.

  • #2
    Holly 570 CFM #0-80570 I presume. Not quite ready for this but you found my adrenalin button. What adaptor plates and other mods etc. are needed to make this work?

    Got to dream ahead... maybe a next year project.

    Comment


    • #3
      The understanding I got from talking with the Hamiltons, 2 weeks ago, is that their kit comes complete, so you should not have to buy much of anything.
      I did not ask however what you do to get the typical submerged Fuel Pump into the tank or if that is even needed.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner

      Comment


      • #4
        That's good to hear Joe.
        Glad the install on #2 went good.
        We haven't even looked at the data yet to see if it needs any tweaks.

        mmagic- I have all the adapters for the various manifolds...(except the rochester 2bbl, still working on that one), to add EFI to most (US) standard 4/6 and 8cyl engines.
        I can do partial kits for the DIY crowd like a custom wiring harness and custom tuned chip package or a complete EFI package like Joe has that basically bolts on.
        All my kits include a data logging cable and software so once installed you connect your laptop and log data while you drive. Email the data files to me and I custom tune the system to your engine and location.

        This sytem will also control the converter lockup on those with the 700r4 conversion so no more extra switches or wiring.

        OK advertisement over!!
        Sorry.
        Bill Hamilton

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
          The understanding I got from talking with the Hamiltons, 2 weeks ago, is that their kit comes complete, so you should not have to buy much of anything.
          I did not ask however what you do to get the typical submerged Fuel Pump into the tank or if that is even needed.
          Rich, I supply the kits with an inline pump and filter. I leaned towards ease of maint with our older vehicles. Most tanks aren't perfect. Joe went with an intank set up from tanksinc IIRC and modified his stock tank. Either system works fine.
          I have been running the inlines for 12yrs with no noise and no failures. It's all in the pump and the installation.


          Forgot to mention....
          MPG isn't even the best part of EFI.
          Ask Joe what the best part is!
          Bill Hamilton

          Comment


          • #6
            Can someone explain how the consumption goes down with fuel injection?

            Am rebuilding my car with a new Edelbrock 4BBL Carby - my mechanic suggested FI wouldn't make much difference. Would install later if worthwhile, am spending enough on the car now.

            Besides I live in Australia so would have to get an Aussie setup perhaps?
            John Clements
            Christchurch, New Zealand

            Comment


            • #7
              Very intriguing. Would love to see pictures of the system installed on a Studebaker engine.

              Also, more info would be great, such as what's included and cost for a Studebaker. I went to the website and only saw a kit for an International.
              Proud NON-CASO

              I do not prize the word "cheap." It is not a badge of honor...it is a symbol of despair. ~ William McKinley

              If it is decreed that I should go down, then let me go down linked with the truth—let me die in the advocacy of what is just and right.- Lincoln

              GOD BLESS AMERICA

              Ephesians 6:10-17
              Romans 15:13
              Deuteronomy 31:6
              Proverbs 28:1

              Illegitimi non carborundum

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              • #8
                My 63 Hawk 289/2bbl/3:331 got 20 mpg to and fro Maggie Valley. 60 mpg. Is there something out there that may increase the mileage. cheers jimmijim






                ;:; got 20 mpg highway to and from Maggie Valley. 60 mph.
                sigpicAnything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mmagic View Post
                  Holly 570 CFM #0-80570 I presume. Not quite ready for this but you found my adrenalin button. What adaptor plates and other mods etc. are needed to make this work?

                  Got to dream ahead... maybe a next year project.
                  Model 4360; 450 CFM; spreadbore; originally a cheap replacement for T-quads & Q-jets; extinct since mid 1980s, but NOS ones still pop up on ebay. Get the one with manual choke. Vapor lock related issues, but minimal when compared to others, i.e. Edelbrock.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jimmijim8 View Post
                    My 63 Hawk 289/2bbl/3:331 got 20 mpg to and fro Maggie Valley. 60 mpg. Is there something out there that may increase the mileage. cheers jimmijim
                    ;:; got 20 mpg highway to and from Maggie Valley. 60 mph.
                    Hi Jim,
                    I have no doubt of 20 MPG with your car. I have gotten around 20 MPG with 2 barrel equipped Studes, when driven conservatively. I am sure your car is a good fit for you, and your style of driving. Plus, you seem mechanically inclined, and can understand when to pump the gas, hold it to the floor, pad the gas, etc.. (My wife has NO mechanical aptitude.)

                    An old friend (Leonard Ainsworth), long deceased, used to regularly top 25 MPG in his Wagonaire, with 2 barrel, 3.31, and overdrive. He was an aircraft guru, and wrote several TW articles on his MPG tricks in the 1980s. His tricks included jetting, power valve & accelerator tweaking, and driving as steady at 55-60 as possible. He died when he crashed his Cesna, and I heard it had "STUDEBAKER" script on the dash.
                    At a fairly steady 60 MPH, most Studes will do good on gas; its stop & go, hills, and speed that kills MPG, due to the accelerator pump and power valve being need more. Those conditions do not seem to affect the HFI as much.

                    With the HFI mileage reported above, it was combined town, country, and Interstate. For example, yesterday's almost 200 miles, about 80 percent on Interstate, at 70-75 MPH, with about a 750 pound payload (five people in car). No conservative (egg under foot) driving anywhere; because the EFI performs so well, its hard to drive it conservatively. Yesterday's trip got 17.86 MPG. It has not gotten less than 16 MPG, even on a tank that was 100 percent town & country. That's another thing I like about FI, is the tight range of MPG I can expect, high/low.
                    Last edited by JoeHall; 09-23-2013, 11:00 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Congrats, Joe. Well researched and well executed, as per your usual excellence.

                      Just to round out the project, can you calculate the payoff? Add up the fuel tank mods, lines, wiring, distributor, EFI. We'll assume the owner is technically able to do all the install himself, so labor aside, what's the bottom line? After how many miles would the three MPG increase begin to save money?

                      jack vines
                      PackardV8

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                        Congrats, Joe. Well researched and well executed, as per your usual excellence.

                        Just to round out the project, can you calculate the payoff? Add up the fuel tank mods, lines, wiring, distributor, EFI. We'll assume the owner is technically able to do all the install himself, so labor aside, what's the bottom line? After how many miles would the three MPG increase begin to save money?

                        jack vines
                        Hi Jack,
                        You are better at math than I
                        Its not just about MPG. If it were, the baby Holley is good enough. It is about all around drive ability, especially for the wife. She's a trooper for even getting back behind the wheel of another GT, after wrecking her other one several years ago. So I wanted to make it as easy and safe as possible. HFI adds to safety, since it is much less likely to die at a light in hot weather. Also, no run-on after key is turned off; it was hard to explain to her to leave the AC on & the tranny in gear till the motor stopped. Or whether to pump the gas, hold it to the floor, etc on restart.
                        Now, its just crank it over till it starts (quickly), let it slow down a bit, drop it in gear and drive off.

                        The only thing I dislike about HFI is the slow return to idle, which is similar to a carb with a "dashpot", and to our Lexus and Honda Odyssey. It is not a problem with the slushbucket FOM, nor with the other GT with OD, but it may have been a problem with the TH400, with shift kit (and hard grabbing first gear), I once had in a 56J.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jim,
                          The Studebaker Camper/Motorhome with 289, 3 speed with OD and 4.88 gears and 28" tires and 5600 lbs. and flat camper nose. Factory 2bbl. Stromberg WW, 11 to 12 mpg overall. R1 AFB 4bbl 12 in town and 16 on the highway. Towing the Avanti on two axle trailer to Bonneville and back 1600 mile trip 11 mpg average. Jeg's Rochester Quadrajet 4bbl. 14 in town and 16 on highway at 65 mph. 18 at 60 mph. So far this is the best but I am still tinkering with jetting ect. The throttle repsonce, starting ease, driveability is best with QJet. Next step ins Multi Port Fuel Injection.
                          Dan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bob Andrews View Post
                            Very intriguing. Would love to see pictures of the system installed on a Studebaker engine.

                            Also, more info would be great, such as what's included and cost for a Studebaker. I went to the website and only saw a kit for an International.
                            Bob,
                            The systems are basically the same for each engine. The only real difference is what adapter is needed for the manifold and the distributor.
                            Every thing is included in the kit except the fuel lines.
                            The system requires 3/8" feed line from the pump to the engine and 5/16" return line back to the tank.
                            Universal steel brake line I have found works the best and is very cheap at the local parts store.
                            The complete basic kit is the same for all engines at $1399.95
                            The system has no idea what engine it is bolted on to so it's all in the proper parts selection and the tuning.

                            If someone is looking only at the ROI-return on investment for the cost per mile in MPGs then I would say just stick with your cab and points. If you are paying someone to maintain those carbs and points then you need to factor the maintenance cost in along with tune ups. Since the EFI basically eliminates those as well. I learned long ago that some guys just want to keep carb and points no matter what. So it's best just to keep them.

                            There are options like the VSS-vehicle speed sensor and for the hot rod guys you could also upgrade the 454 throttle body if you are into more power.

                            If you just want to source all the parts from the junkyard and DIY to save the nickel then everything is provided in the injection on the binderplanet. I've been helping guys convert for about 12yrs.

                            If you want to source all the parts but hate wiring I have a complete stand alone harness and custom tuned chip for $400. You provide everything else.

                            But I don't really break it down any more than that. Your either a DIY's or your time is worth more than the cost of the entire system.

                            So you have to decide if it's worth it or not.

                            As for the installation...you can make as stealthy as you like. On my all original vehicles I remove the plastic loom from the kit and wrap all the wiring with the factory engine harness in what ever was factory, whether electrical tape or cloth tape. A factory 4bbl air cleaner on top and the only way anyone would know it was EFI is by the fuel lines coming out the back from under the air cleaner.


                            The 2 most asked questions!
                            1.
                            MPG, lets be realistic here, it all comes down to the tune and the driver. An internal combustion engine designed in the 30's-60's is only going to be so efficient. Any one can set a vehicle on the highway and set the rpm to the peak torque spec of the engine and cruise down the highway and achieve max MPG.
                            I don't drive that way and many others don't either. I drive 5mph above the posted speed limit and go from point A to B. I want to do a quickly and efficiently as I can. I drive heavy bricks (International Harvesters), other than the pickup...a stude can't come close to how inefficient they are. But we love our classics and drive them any ways.
                            And yes I too can say I got 20mpg on the highway in an IH. But it is far from being a realistic avg MPG when used as a DD in all conditions.

                            2.
                            How much more HP will I gain.
                            Answer...none
                            or
                            a bunch.
                            HP refers to a number on a dyno at WOT-wide open throttle and really has nothing to do with the drivability of the vehicle. It is for bragging rights or drag racing only.
                            If the throttle is wide open and your timing and fuel are completely optimized for your engine...then your making the max power your engine can make.
                            But your distr is worn and the carb is never tuned(trust me). If you think it is then take to a dyno shop and run some numbers and see if the carb is actually tuned for steady driving and WOT power. Then let the weather change and see if it's still tuned. It won't be.
                            That's how the EFI gets better MPG and HP. It's always tuned no matter what the weather or the altitude while traveling.
                            Isn't that what we really want?

                            As for MPFI.....BTDT got the t-shirt. It's great, really like it, but if you are planning on MPFI because you think it makes more power on our old engines...it doesn't. It looks great and will wow your buddies at the drive in on Friday night. But the truth is that with our old iron engines with all the angles leading to the cylinders that the MPFI isn't much different that the TBI.
                            I did gain a slight increase in off idle throttle response but that's not something you can quantify other than in the seat of the pants.
                            So do it because you can and you want to, not for a performance advantage.

                            Thanks,

                            Here's a few pics of one of my IH's before and after conversion.
                            The after was before installing the correct round coil on it so it would look more stock.
                            Before






                            After



                            Last edited by Bill USN-1; 09-23-2013, 04:25 PM.
                            Bill Hamilton

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                            • #15
                              Thanks a lot Bill for the completely honest explanation, with all of the Pluses and Minuses of Old Tech. Engines with New Tech. Fuel Injection.

                              This sounds like it would be very satisfying to those that really want it.
                              StudeRich
                              Second Generation Stude Driver,
                              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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