Packard V8 clutch housing?...How many do You need?

[Bob Andrews]

Jack, you are scary smart.

[PackardV8]

Didn't they use four speed hydro-matic in those years? That would be a nice swap, wouldn't it?

Yes, the Hash used the Hydramatic in the early '50s.

No, the Twin-Ultramatic was the only auto used behind the '55-56 Packard, Nash, Hudson and the '56 Studebaker Golden Hawk with the Packard V8.

Maybe, we'll be able to announce new developments soon.

jack vines

[SN-60]

New developments Jack?

[PackardV8]

As we speak, an aluminum bell housing is winging its way to me. Since the back of the bell is machined flat, first thoughts are to choose a transmission, measure the input shaft, measure the 5" T-U bell plus the extended Packard block and determine what a tranny input shaft length plus spacer would be ideal. Then, cut a circle of 3/8" or 1/2" or whatever thickness adds up, aluminum plate and heliarc it to the bell. This would provide enough stock to drill and tap any bolt pattern desired.

It's just time and money.

jack vines

[GThawkwind]

We should propose randoms ideas to you more often.

[PackardV8]

If someone wanted to drag-race a '56J, I've got a close-ratio T10 out of an AMC which has a pilot shaft about the correct length to fit behind the aluminum T-U bell.

Since Dave started this by asking about truck applications, I'll have to get to a tranny shop and measure some truck 4-speeds and 5-speeds, looking for some with input shafts about 8.25" - 8.5" long.

jack vines

[SN-60]

If someone wanted to drag-race a '56J, I've got a close-ratio T10 out of an AMC which has a pilot shaft about the correct length to fit behind the aluminum T-U bell.

Since Dave started this by asking about truck applications, I'll have to get to a tranny shop and measure some truck 4-speeds and 5-speeds, looking for some with input shafts about 8.25" - 8.5" long.

jack vines

Uncanny!...Really Uncanny!....My thoughts exactly! I was thinking of contacting YOU about the purchase of a Twin Ultra aluminum bell to be used as a starting point of doing the exact same thing.....To tell You the truth, I would have no personal use for a Packard V8 clutch housing (right now) but just wanted to see if something like this could be done. I've become half way decent at tig welding lately, and coming up with a piece of 3/8" aluminum flat stock wouldn't be a problem. I'm still thinking about passenger car applications here......that is where, I believe, the more serious interest lies. Keep us posted on this!

[SN-60]

Just to get folks who haven't played around with Packard V8's up to speed with what Jack and I are talking about here.....There has always been a chronic shortage of the original cast iron Packard V8 clutch housings....the 'key' component that would be needed if an owner of, say, a 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk wanted to improve on what is definitely the weak point of that particular model...the Packard 'Twin Ultramatic' transmission. It just so happens that the aluminum torque converter housing used with the 'Twin Ultramatic' is quite similar in design to the V8 Packard clutch housing....and with some 'rather major' modifications, could be made to work in place of that very hard to find part. If these mods work out, the next (and the final) challenge would be to come up with Packard V8 standard shift flywheels....and I have some thoughts on how to 'beat' that one! Let's wait and see how Jack makes out on this clutch housing project! ...SN-60

[PackardV8]

The shortage right now is serious Packard V8 performance builds. I've got both aluminum and iron flywheels, OEM bell housings and T85 overdrives and T10 4-speeds ready to go. What would be wonderful is for some '56 J owner to want to break the 141 MPH record at Bonneville and have the world's fastest Packard powered Stude. With today's technology, it could probably be done at one of the long course asphalt tracks.

I'm building a Latham supercharged 427" Packard V8, but it's ultimately going in a street custom Hawk. The Hilborn-injected 358" engine Rich Fox built for Bonneville is on a stand. What we need is a tech-certified Stude roller chassis to give these two engines a place to run.

jack vines

[GThawkwind]

While bell housing's are the subject...... how different are the 3 and for speed bells for a regular V8? And more over why are they different?

[PackardV8]

While bell housing's are the subject...... how different are the 3 and for speed bells for a regular V8? And more over why are they different?

Are we discussing Studebaker car or Studebaker truck?

The '57-64 V8 car 3-speed and 4-speed have the same "Ford" bolt pattern except the '61-mid'62 4-speed has the "Chevy" pattern.

The car engine has two front mounts and a rear mount off the transmission tailshaft. The three point system better isolates vibration.

The '57-64 truck 3-speed is the "Ford" pattern, but the truck 4-speed is a heavy-duty bell with the Borg-Warner T98 wider bolt pattern and the 5-speed is a super-heavy-duty with the New Process bolt pattern.

Because the truck is designed for load carrying, it has to absorb more torque in the lower gears. Thus, the truck engine has four motor mounts, the two front, plus two rear, one on each side of the bellhousing and the transmission hangs off the back of the bell. The 4-speed and 5-speed trannys are heavy brutes and thus require a stronger bell.

[StudeDave57]

The shortage right now is serious Packard V8 performance builds. jack vines

I will continue to save my pennys, dimes, nickels and quarters!!!




StudeDave '57

[GThawkwind]

Are we discussing Studebaker car or Studebaker truck?

The '57-64 V8 car 3-speed and 4-speed have the same "Ford" bolt pattern except the '61-mid'62 4-speed has the "Chevy" pattern.

The car engine has two front mounts and a rear mount off the transmission tailshaft. The three point system better isolates vibration.

The '57-64 truck 3-speed is the "Ford" pattern, but the truck 4-speed is a heavy-duty bell with the Borg-Warner T98 wider bolt pattern and the 5-speed is a super-heavy-duty with the New Process bolt pattern.

Because the truck is designed for load carrying, it has to absorb more torque in the lower gears. Thus, the truck engine has four motor mounts, the two front, plus two rear, one on each side of the bellhousing and the transmission hangs off the back of the bell. The 4-speed and 5-speed trannys are heavy brutes and thus require a stronger bell.

does that mean I could use a 63/64 T10 with a three speed bell and flywheel? If so does this mean I could also use one with a three speed clutch and throw out bearing? So the 61-62 bells are unique to those cars?
Sorry for the thread derail.

[SN-60]

The shortage right now is serious Packard V8 performance builds. I've got both aluminum and iron flywheels, OEM bell housings and T85 overdrives and T10 4-speeds ready to go. What would be wonderful is for some '56 J owner to want to break the 141 MPH record at Bonneville and have the world's fastest Packard powered Stude. With today's technology, it could probably be done at one of the long course asphalt tracks.

I'm building a Latham supercharged 427" Packard V8, but it's ultimately going in a street custom Hawk. The Hilborn-injected 358" engine Rich Fox built for Bonneville is on a stand. What we need is a tech-certified Stude roller chassis to give these two engines a place to run.

jack vines

Jack, for Your consideration....I'd like to steer You in the direction of tooling up a hybrid Packard V8 clutch housing for NORMAL passenger car use. Although there may be a few people who might be interested in setting up a Packard engine in a land speed car, or a dragstrip car, and one or two people who may be dreaming about installing one into a heavy truck or bus, I believe the mainstream interest in a project such as this one would be from the owners of '56 Golden Hawks and '55-'56 Packard cars who are not satisfied with the performance of their present Packard automatic transmission. This, in My opinion, is where any demand for an item such as this will ultimately come from! (And where eventually.....if this project turns out well......the MONEY would come from!)

[PackardV8]

Jack, for Your consideration....I'd like to steer You in the direction of tooling up a hybrid Packard V8 clutch housing for NORMAL passenger car use. . . . I believe the mainstream interest in a project such as this one would be from the owners of '56 Golden Hawks and '55-'56 Packard cars who are not satisfied with the performance of their present Packard automatic transmission. This, in My opinion, is where any demand for an item such as this will ultimately come from! (And where eventually.....if this project turns out well......the MONEY would come from!)

There already exists a kit to use a TH400/TH700R4 automatic behind a Packard V8. Joe Hall has been running a TH400 for many years now. Only $895 from Bendtsen's http://www.transmissionadapters.com/PackardV8.htm

For the very few who want a standard shift transmission, I've got several standard shift bellhousings which will accept a T85/T10/Ford toploader 4-speed. They'd be available for about the same cost as a welded and machined T-U bellhousing.

jack vines