Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Unbelievable Oil Mileage On Freshly Rebuilt 289

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Unbelievable Oil Mileage On Freshly Rebuilt 289

    I changed oil on the 289 motor in the 62GT Hawk, 5700 miles ago, and just now added the first quart to top it off and bring it back exactly to the full mark on the dipstick. It was rebuilt about 16 months and 15,000 miles ago, using chrome rings and hyper-eutectic pistons from Phil Harris at Fairborn. I had it bored to .002" clearance, and hand fitted the rings, with the top compression rings a little on the loose side, per the instructions for the hyper pistons. I also installed the oil pan gasket with the end pieces trimmed to fit properly (not too long & not too short), and used Permatex "UltraBlack" adhesive. It also has OEM "thin" head gaskets (.015" thick).

    Using Mobil 1, 15W50 oil since the last oil change.

    This is the best oil mileage I have ever gotten out of a freshly rebuilt Stude V8, but have came very close to it with several Packard motors in 56Js (about 5000 miles per quart). Prior experience with fresh Stude V8s was usually around 2000 miles per quart.

    I wonder if the EFI on this car has anything to do with oil mileage, since supposedly EFI provdes more precisely metered gas to the chambers, resulting in less washdown of the cylinder walls.

    The oil mileage is almost unbelievable, but is recent, real world experience, using modern rebuild parts and EFI.

    It has 3.54 rear end, with T85 overdrive, for a 2.55 final drive, when in high gear OD. The lower RPMs probably also help the oil mileage.
    Last edited by JoeHall; 07-16-2013, 06:45 AM.

  • #2
    I wouldn't think the EFI had a whole lot to do with the oil usage. EFI produces a spark at a more precise time, closer to the recommended ignition point... where it should be, than perhaps points. And the resistance, from pressure difference on the top side and underneath the ring should not very with piston height in the cylinder. Unless of course the .002 ended up being .003 at the bottom. Darn, that was difficult for me to explain. But that is the way I see it........... Did you offset the ring gap by 120 degrees? What was the gap on the moly rings you used?

    Comment


    • #3
      that is awesomely believeable. Congratulations. Thanks for the tip on the cork gasket at the rear of the oil pan. I trimmed mine to fit also but concede that some folks just think they are proper length and use em the way the come. that is a no no, if they are too long. cheers jimmijim
      sigpicAnything worth doing deserves your best shot. Do it right the first time. When you're done you will know it. { I'm just the guy who thinks he knows everything, my buddy is the guy who knows everything.} cheers jimmijim*****SDC***** member

      Comment


      • #4
        Joe. Great oil mileage. My hawk was getting about 57 miles to a qt when I pulled it apart. Hope it gets close to yours when done.

        Comment


        • #5
          jimmijim8, interesting note about the cork gasket. So, the oil pan gasket at he rear can be trimmed to fit well? Please elaborate or start another post to go more indepth. Thanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Len -

            Yes, the cork end sections require trimming to fit correctly. Just wrap them in place, it's obvious how much needs to be trimmed..! But always better to cut long and have to trim a little more thAn to trim too much the first time.

            For the front, I just put a sealer on the filler block, wrapped and "taped" the gasket in place. Let it sit over night and trimmed it the next day and remooved the tape. And as noted before, I left the cork just a "little" long on each side for some crush when the pan is installed.

            Now...we'll see how well I did...I need to pull the pan off so I can install a set of Total Seal rings...!

            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              I think the EFI can have a LOT to do with it. Not washing the oil from the walls is mostly why modern engines last so darned long, compared to the older carb engines, without showing any blowby or cylinder wear. The cylinders, rings, and pistons wear really fast without oil, and cold starts (particularly) with a carbs choke washes the oil from the walls, but also every squrit from the accelerator pump contributes to this as well.

              I doubt very much if the more accurate timing of EFI contributes much, if anything to reduced wear, but the accurate mixture under all conditions sure does! While I ussually put "JMHO" on things, this is basic common knowledge, and not just an opinion.

              PS I know the advertising say's you can run that Mobil One for a jillion million miles, but don't do it! It's not the oil, but the additives that go south in Mobil One, and at 5000 miles, you should be thinking of changing it, not adding to it! Also not "JMHO".
              Last edited by Corley; 07-16-2013, 08:30 AM.
              Corley

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Corley View Post
                I think the EFI can have a LOT to do with it. Not washing the oil from the walls is mostly why modern engines last so darned long, compared to the older carb engines, without showing any blowby or cylinder wear. The cylinders, rings, and pistons wear really fast without oil, and cold starts (particularly) with a carbs choke washes the oil from the walls, but also every squrit from the accelerator pump contributes to this as well.

                I doubt very much if the more accurate timing of EFI contributes much, if anything to reduced wear, but the accurate mixture under all conditions sure does! While I ussually put "JMHO" on things, this is basic common knowledge, and not just an opinion.
                I agree 100 percent Corley. It seems bosshoss is focused only on ignition, while you and I both are focused on fuel. The ECU controlled ignition is just a side benefit of EFI, and some EFI systems are setup without it. I chose to include the ECU controlled ignition, but as you said, I doubt that has much to do with the oil mileage.
                Last edited by JoeHall; 07-16-2013, 08:36 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  ...all true. Congrats on the excellent result!
                  Diesel loving, autocrossing, Coupe express loving, Grandpa Architect.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi, Joe,

                    Good job, as always. The hypereutectic pistons can be set to close tolerances and work wonderfully well, as do moly rings.

                    Did you use the umbrella valve stem seals from the gasket set? If so, they'll work fine for a while, but I've been using positive seals located on the valve guide. These also reduce oil consumption.

                    jack vines
                    PackardV8

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                      Hi, Joe,

                      Good job, as always. The hypereutectic pistons can be set to close tolerances and work wonderfully well, as do moly rings.

                      Did you use the umbrella valve stem seals from the gasket set? If so, they'll work fine for a while, but I've been using positive seals located on the valve guide. These also reduce oil consumption.

                      jack vines
                      Hi Jack,
                      I used the standard umbrella seals in the gasket set. They have historically lasted the life of the rebuild for me (over 100,000 miles per). Have never used the teflon seals due to advice frfom a couple of trusted machinists over the years. Basically, I was told: they work too well; do not allow a carbon sleeve to form on the exhaust stem; fit so snugly they can cause premature valve float; will wear the surface on the stems down quickly, and then start leaking. Dunno if any of that is true, but the umbrellas have always worked well and worked long for me. And they are cheaper to buy and to install.
                      I also liked the how the motor ran nice and cool from the get-go, probably due to the hyper pistons. Usually, a freshly rebuilt Stude or Packard V8 will run hotter for several thousand miles, but not this one.
                      Joe
                      Last edited by JoeHall; 07-16-2013, 10:00 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JoeHall View Post
                        It has 3.54 rear end, with T85 overdrive, for a 2.55 final drive, when in high gear OD. The lower RPMs probably also help the oil mileage.
                        By the way, the EFI allows you to run gears like this, where the engine is just above an idle at cruise in OD. The EFI controls the mixture very well in this range, so you are not constantly transisioning from idle ckts to run ckts in a carb, with the constant squirt-squirt of the accelerator pump. Also, when the trottle is closed, there will be no fuel flow at all with EFI, preventing the flooding of the cylinder walls, as occures on a carb setup.

                        A cam that makes good torque at low RPM also helps here, but the EFI is really what makes it work efficiently in the Studebaker engine. I'm curious as to what sort of mileage are you getting at cruise with this setup and gearing? I'd expect it to be pretty much a treat! I'd think at least 2-3 mpg better than a carb with the lower rear end gearing that would be needed [3:73+] for the carb setup to pull as well as the EFI.

                        First part not JMHO, last part JMHO.

                        I speculate (but don't know) that you can run better valve seals with EFI for the same reasons, IE the oil is not washed off the stems by raw fuel, as is the case with a carb. It just makes sense, but for me it's just a theory, as I've not seen any data to support it.
                        Corley

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                          Hi, Joe,

                          Good job, as always. The hypereutectic pistons can be set to close tolerances and work wonderfully well, as do moly rings.

                          Did you use the umbrella valve stem seals from the gasket set? If so, they'll work fine for a while, but I've been using positive seals located on the valve guide. These also reduce oil consumption.

                          jack vines
                          Awesome on the negligible oil consumption.

                          Ruining proper tolerance and and positive seals on the valves is always a great way to slow oil consumption.

                          Good gasket management helps stop oil leakage.

                          Having a negative pressure in the lower section also helps reduce oil consumption as the oil vapor is not pushed back past the rings on the intake cycle as well.

                          But EFI should have really no effect on oil consumption. The rings basically wipe all the oil off the cylinder on the intake cycle. The 14.6:1 air fuel mixture can be obtained from a carburetor. A modern EFI will meter that ratio better than a Carb.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            But EFI should have really no effect on oil consumption.
                            Yes, very true on a fresh rebuild.

                            No, not true as the miles accumulate and the rings wear; and rings wear much more quickly on a carbureted engine. I've been pulling down engines for fifty years. Back in the day, in a cold climate, an engine with good maintenance for fifty thousand miles would have good bearings, but worn valves and rings and a ridge in the cylinder. The bores would have enough taper and the rings and ring grooves in the pistons would have enough wear to be sucking in oil.

                            Today, a EFI engine with good maintenance for a hundred and fifty thousand miles will have some wear in the bearings, but the crosshatch will still be visible on the cylinders and the pistons and rings will be perfect.

                            Maybe, remember, it's no just the EFI. Computer controlled crank triggered ignition, better warm-up control, positive crankcase ventilation, improved camshaft design; all contribute.

                            jack vines
                            PackardV8

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It should be noted that much like a carb installation, bad things can happen if you get it wrong. My '55 with the Megasquirt ECU is in the camp where you can do that, since that ECU started as a blank slate, and everything had to be done manually. If you make the mixture far too rich, you can wash down the cylinder walls, and result in engine damage. Do everything right, and EFI will work out well for a long time. Do it wrong, such as leaning the engine out too far, or making the mixture too rich, and you could potentially damage the engine.

                              (Legal Disclaimer)
                              1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                              1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                              1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                              1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X