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  • #61
    I gotta say SN60, if there was any way on Earth I thought requiring builders to ID fakes by tagging them would stop forgeries, I'd be with you. But anyone forgetting to mention the engine they're selling is a clone or tribute, would also remove any such tags. If persons are already faking the casting numbers and stamps on faked parts, why would expecting them to be tagging these parts ever work? That's the only problem I see with it, honestly.

    Now as for builders identifying engines they've built, that's all fine and certainly doable. Some already do by leaving part numbers and stamps alone and telling buyers what they're getting. Some don't and sell all kinds of back stories to go with their parts and cars. Even if complete factory documentation were available, scammers will be selling forgeries. Do your due diligence, just art investors, real estate folks and anyone else interested in protecting themselves.

    BTW, I heard the term tribute car on Speed referring to clone cars several years ago. I think bezhawk was being a little tongue in cheek.
    Last edited by jlmccuan; 06-20-2013, 04:54 PM.
    Jim
    Often in error, never in doubt
    http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

    ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • #62
      Another thought SN60. I applaud you trying to approach this from a positive direction. The internet is full of "watch out for this forgery" sites and not all are honestly trying to protect other consumers so much as trying to damage the reputation of honest businesses.
      Jim
      Often in error, never in doubt
      http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

      ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by jlmccuan View Post
        Another thought SN60. I applaud you trying to approach this from a positive direction. The internet is full of "watch out for this forgery" sites and not all are honestly trying to protect other consumers so much as trying to damage the reputation of honest businesses.
        Thanks Jim. It's probably time to 'Hit The brakes' on this subject....and I did appreciate Your insightful thoughts.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by SN-60 View Post
          What an interesting story!......Threads such as this one bring stories out that otherwise We may never hear.
          The story on the next engine, B-110, is here: http://www.studebaker-info.org/JTN/JTNEWS/jtn15.htm

          Craig

          Comment


          • #65
            It would be interesting to know the dates of when Paxton released these B engines. Seemingly no order whatsoever. Were the blocks numbered when selected in South Bend? Were a group of blocks sent from South Bend and tested for fitness at Paxton, then numbered? Was there a rejection of blocks already numbered due to imperfections found when finish machining? There surely was an engineering protocol for selection and disposal of rejects. All very intriguing to me.
            Jim
            Often in error, never in doubt
            http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

            ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #66
              Craig; That time line in the B110 story seems about right. Between 66 and 68 I bought 2 sets of R3 heads from Joe. At the end of 68, Oct. or so when Rich Bennett picked up Due we had to scrounge to find a set of R3 heads for him. Early in 69 just before I left there was an incident where Ed Murry came with a customer that owned an Avanti that he wanted to put an R3 in. Joe went off on Ed Murry and told him to stay off his property until they were ready to load the engine. Lional Stone later bought the car from Bob Patton on consignment from Le Concours in 73 and went Postal when he found out it was an R2 with a R3 blower box.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by 8E45E View Post
                The story on the next engine, B-110, is here: http://www.studebaker-info.org/JTN/JTNEWS/jtn15.htm

                Craig
                So B110 was a short block supplied with R2 connecting rods?

                From the story:

                "Paxton Products did a poor job of assembling the rods to the pistons. The clamp bolt for the wrist pin had worked loose on cylinders 5 and 6. The wrist pin started to scratch the bore in those two cylinders."


                EDIT: I seen John already has a note on the internal parts.
                Last edited by jlmccuan; 06-21-2013, 02:08 PM.
                Jim
                Often in error, never in doubt
                http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

                ____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________http://rabidsnailracing.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #68
                  This is all really interesting stuff!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    The story of the first R3 Avanti in 1970

                    In 1970 I bought the first R3 powered Avanti #5089 which at that time had a Chevrolet 460 CID V8 engine. I had previously bought the original R3 engine (R3SH320) a few years prior. Part way into the job of reinstalling the R3 in 5089 it became necessary to sell the car to a friend Mark Dahl. The story was featured in AOAI NL#26 in 1975. Attached are some photos of 5089 with the GM engine and then the reinstallation of the R3.

                    The R3 engine was rebuilt by Mike Salay Speedshop in South Bend, IN in 1974. In the magazine article photos [top left] Shanahan looks at the R3 heads; [top RH] Mark Dahl new owner, assembles 4 speed trans to R3; [Bottom LH] Mike Salay & Mark Dahl assemble heads to R3 block; [Bottom RH] Shanahan prepares R3 on hoist to reinstall in Avanti 5089.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Stude8; 06-21-2013, 06:08 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Somehow I lost the Avanti 5089 pictures of the GM 460 CID engine in the first reply, lets try again!
                      Attached Files

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Stude8 View Post
                        Somehow I lost the Avanti 5089 pictures of the GM 460 CID engine in the first reply, lets try again!
                        Great story! Do You happen to know the whereabouts of R-5089 today?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          One change to this roster would be that I sold our R3 #5089 to Randy Rapp of Collinsville Illinois.
                          Randy will restore this car .I was getting too old to do this.
                          This was the first of the nine original cars produced and was once owned by John Shanahan.
                          John rescued it from being hot rodded.
                          A long story behind this is in Bob Johnstone pages along with a treasure trove of information.
                          http://www.studebaker-info.org/AVDB1...89/r5089c.html
                          Robert Kapteyn

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Yes and No; the Avanti 5089 was bought from Mark Dahl estate when he passed away many years ago. It was bought by Studebaker parts dealer Bob Kapteyn of Joliet, IL. Kapteyn I just learned sold the car with the R3 installed to a buyer this month. I don't have name of new owner or where abouts of 5089 at the moment. John Shanahan

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              It says in the article that the Avanti had a Chev L88 engine in it. If it was, that's a very expensive engine to sell, he probably recouped his money to finance the R3 engine and then some.
                              Great story, articles like this make this Forum.
                              Brian Greenall
                              Melbourne, OZ
                              sigpic

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by StudeDave57 View Post
                                I know of at least one R3 locally,
                                but I don't see the name on that list.
                                It's a legit engine from Paxton.
                                I'll have to get the numbers...




                                StudeDave '57
                                Dave,----Any more on that R3 engine up Your way?

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